Cam Farah: Foiling is the future...!

[00:00:00] Hi, everybody, and welcome to SailFaster, the podcast for those who obsess about sailing

[00:00:14] faster than anybody else. We are up to episode 11, I believe you can catch them all wherever

[00:00:22] you get your favorite podcast from, or just go to www.sailfaster.net. We've got many more

[00:00:30] to come, it's spring and I hope that everyone is starting to get out on the water again and

[00:00:36] dusting off the boat or in the northeast brushing off the ice from the boat. Of course those

[00:00:41] of you who are in Florida or the Mediterranean or the Caribbean or the Southern Hemisphere,

[00:00:45] you have been sailing all through the winter of course. And actually I'm forgetting

[00:00:50] those who did a bit of winter frostbites throughout the winter. I'm feeling like quite

[00:00:56] a loser because I haven't been out on the water on the boat for quite a while now, but

[00:01:01] you know what, after 20 years of living in California and Florida, I'm not quite comfortable

[00:01:05] yet with northern winter sailing. Meanwhile our J105 is out of the water right now,

[00:01:10] we've got hauled this morning so I heard. I'm going to head over and see what we

[00:01:15] need to do to get her bottom in perfect shape for the upcoming season. Hopefully all the

[00:01:21] old girl needs is just a bit of spit and polish here and there, but we'll see. I tell

[00:01:27] you what today's episode is going to be a cracker. I bet some of you are watching

[00:01:31] the Sail GP series on YouTube. That's those 15 meter foiling cats moving it up to

[00:01:39] like 100 kilometers per hour over a relatively small race course. It's quite a spectacle,

[00:01:44] lots of drama, lots of close crossing and so on. And you know, they've got a good video team

[00:01:48] because they do a good job of overlaying graphics to show ladder lines and lay lines and so

[00:01:53] on, which makes it quite useful. And they do relay the drama quite well through multiple

[00:01:58] cameras and so on. It might only bear a passing resemblance to what we know right

[00:02:04] now is Windward-Lewitt club racing, but that said, it's a very dynamic and exciting

[00:02:08] branch of the sport. And I bet it foreshadows what club racing is going to look like

[00:02:13] in, you know, 10 years or so. So why am I talking about the Sail GP? Well, today it's

[00:02:18] because we're talking to Cam Fara who experienced last year what it's like to be

[00:02:23] thrown into the strategist role on the US Sail GP team. She called it a

[00:02:29] baptism of fire and it certainly looked like that. She's got some remarkable stories

[00:02:33] of what it's like to be at the sharp end of a 72 mile per hour catamaran in full view

[00:02:38] of the cameras. Surviving a Sail GP series is only one of Cam's many skills. She's

[00:02:45] one of the US's best young sailors and she's fully embraced the foiling revolution. She's

[00:02:50] been a world champion on foiling A-class catarans for the last two years. And she's a leading sailor

[00:02:57] on the 69F, which is the one designed foiling monohull that looks a little bit like an

[00:03:03] America's Cup design and similarly sails at astonishing speeds. When I say America's Cup,

[00:03:08] I mean contemporary America's Cup designs. Cam's a recent graduate of Tulane University in New Orleans

[00:03:14] and surely has a sailing resume that runs to multiple pages. It was truly a privilege to

[00:03:20] chat to Cam as you'll hear. She tells some great stories from the new world of foiling

[00:03:25] and has, of course, some great insights into sailing faster. So I do hope you'll enjoy it.

[00:03:30] Hey, one quick thing before I press play listening to the episode. I realized I was suffering from

[00:03:37] some sort of head cold so my voice sounds a little bit crackly. It could have been due to a

[00:03:42] hangover from a big night out with my wife. Can't quite remember. Anyway, enjoy it.

[00:03:48] So Cam, welcome to SailFaster. I'm really thrilled to have you on our series.

[00:04:02] Thanks. I'm stoked to be here. Really appreciate it. You're calling from Florida, right?

[00:04:06] Yeah, I'm home. I'm in Daston, Florida, which is pretty close to Pensacola.

[00:04:10] Yep, I know it well. We used to live in Seaside, beautiful part of the world. Fort Walton

[00:04:15] Yacht Club. Yes, absolutely. Favorite yacht club on earth.

[00:04:18] Those amazing sandy beaches. Anyway, welcome to SailFaster. I'm so thrilled to have you.

[00:04:24] We were talking about it. You just came back from a scoring an amazing result in the midwinter,

[00:04:30] didn't you? Yeah, yeah. I just got back from Key Largo, Florida, which was fabulous.

[00:04:35] Perfect and nice and warm in the middle of the winter. But I won the

[00:04:40] A-Cat, Cadmuran midwinter championship. Just like that. Yeah.

[00:04:46] And that's overall not the leading woman. You won the overall.

[00:04:49] Yeah, totally overall. Yeah, first woman to ever do so in the class. I was pretty excited about

[00:04:54] it. So did everything went right? Yeah, no, for the most part, everything went right. The boat

[00:05:01] all held together just fine and had good starts most of the regatta and just tried

[00:05:07] to stay really consistent, which was good. You have an amazing sailing resume for if I can say

[00:05:12] for somebody so young, it's just ridiculous. So how did it get started? How do you get started on this?

[00:05:18] Yeah, so I was pretty fortunate to grow up somewhere where sailing is so easy. Being in

[00:05:24] Northwest Florida, we can sail year round and my dad was a big sailor. He sailed like multi-holes,

[00:05:30] so mostly trimerans. And I had sailed with him always since I was little,

[00:05:35] but never really competitively until I was 16 or 17. So I always kind of felt like it was a bit late

[00:05:41] to the competitive sailing game compared to everyone else who sailed, opties growing up and

[00:05:47] everything. But yeah, I always did a lot of Cadmuran sailing, multi-hole stuff,

[00:05:52] a lot of wetter trimerans. That was kind of my version of the opties. So I sailed that

[00:05:57] since I was probably like eight or 10 with my dad. Love the boat. The best memory I have on

[00:06:03] the wetter was one day my dad sailed me out to the middle of the bay. So he was on the trimeran with

[00:06:08] me on the wetter and I was crewing for him. And my dad always thought it was very important that

[00:06:14] I learned how to drive the boat because women often don't get as much opportunity to helm the boat.

[00:06:19] So he was like, you know, you really need to learn how to drive. No, I don't want to do it.

[00:06:24] You know, I'm like 10 years old, eight years old, and he's got a six pack of beer and he

[00:06:29] wedges himself into the middle of the wetter trimeran underneath the boom. And he cracks open

[00:06:34] a beer and he looks at me and he says, well kid, I'm drunk, you got to get me to land. And I was

[00:06:38] like, oh my God, no, like, he's gonna die. I'm not going to be able to get him in all safe.

[00:06:43] And I was freaking out, but I eventually sailed him in fine. And that kind of started the whole

[00:06:49] beginning of driving boats and racing boats really. You race obviously in college, didn't you?

[00:06:54] Yep. You're a plane right in New Orleans. That's another big sailing area.

[00:06:58] Yeah, I was super fortunate to get recruited to Tulane. So we're the first group of varsity

[00:07:04] athletes at Tulane. So this wonderful donor gave a ton of money to the Tulane sailing program.

[00:07:10] And I mean, we were treated the same as the football team there. It was incredible

[00:07:14] to have that many resources. We won nationals my senior year and yeah, it was great.

[00:07:21] So where are you now in your sailing career? I can see from what I know about you from

[00:07:27] your resume and sort of what you're famous for is foiling. Is that where you're going with

[00:07:33] your career? Do you think foiling? And obviously, we need to talk about sail GP

[00:07:38] and sailing with Jimmy Spitzel. I can't wait to talk to you about that. But

[00:07:42] where are you in your sailing career right now?

[00:07:45] Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to say. I mean, I've done, I feel like so much over the past

[00:07:50] two years since graduating college that I'm trying to really decide what my main focus

[00:07:55] is going to be. And for me, like right now the ACAT is my absolute favorite boat that I'm sailing.

[00:08:01] And it's one of those boats that I feel like over time I can really get to the top of that podium.

[00:08:07] So putting a lot of emphasis on focusing on worlds every year for the ACAT and I've been

[00:08:12] steadily moving up that scoreboard I head down to, I guess over to Italy in the fall

[00:08:18] for the next world championship. But yeah, I'm focusing a lot on just racing a ton and

[00:08:24] focusing on the kind of sailing that makes me happy, not getting burnt out and

[00:08:28] yeah, foiling as much as I can, of course.

[00:08:30] Yeah. So you were sifting from the world?

[00:08:34] Yep. I think so. That was in Toulon, France. So I was the top woman,

[00:08:38] top under 25, top youth for that world and then the same for the previous year world in Houston.

[00:08:45] How did you do in the previous worlds for the ACAT?

[00:08:48] Yeah. So this past world was in Toulon, France and I was the top female finisher in the foiling

[00:08:54] fleet and then the top under 25 junior. I think it was like 16th. And then the year before was

[00:09:01] in Houston and I was top female and top junior again. But I mean, the goal is just to keep

[00:09:05] climbing up, you know, breaking to the top 10, top five and just see what I can really do

[00:09:11] in that fleet, which is cool.

[00:09:12] Um, is it natural ability or is it a ton of practice as well? I mean, I'm sure it's going

[00:09:20] to be a ton of practice. But just curious about what is your what does your week look like?

[00:09:23] So I try to really focus on because I sail so many different boats, right? So I'll

[00:09:29] sail like VX1s or I'll sail Vipers and then I'll sail ACATs next week or 69F sailing

[00:09:34] monoholes. So it's really important to like kind of segment my training to make sure

[00:09:39] that I'm focused on the right thing and I peek in the right boat at the right time. So

[00:09:44] if it's like a full on training week for ACATs, ideally with the training partner,

[00:09:49] you know, like wake up, do a bit of mobility, get down to the boat park, do about an hour

[00:09:54] of boat work, you know, prep maybe two hours, hopefully not more than two and then get out

[00:09:59] and sail. I mean, the ACATs, it's hard to spend more than like three hours of really

[00:10:05] focused training on the water. So ideally maybe do two hours, really big focus, come in,

[00:10:10] have lunch on the beach, you know, debrief with everyone else that I sailed with and then get

[00:10:14] back out and sail really hard for another two hours and then review film in the evenings. But

[00:10:21] I mean, I think one of the reasons I've done so well in the Fuelling Boats was when I first

[00:10:25] started sailing to ACATs, like I would get out of school at like what 1pm or something 2pm

[00:10:31] at a high school and I would just go sail my boat every single day for like three hours, you know,

[00:10:37] till the sun went down and just those hours of understanding how the foil reacts to the waves

[00:10:43] and how does your sail trim affect the foil and the loading of the boat. There's nothing that

[00:10:49] can replace time on the water, you know, and especially focused time on the water is even

[00:10:53] more important. So I'm curious about foiling. There's not as much sort of

[00:10:58] learned history as there is on many of the keelboat classes. So are you finding your pushing boundaries

[00:11:05] on foil, on foiling and how it works? Yeah, I mean, I feel like with foiling, every time you go out,

[00:11:14] you learn something new, right, or your body just you create muscle memory, right, like

[00:11:19] the foil starts to feel like this, this is how the boat's going to react. So I feel like there's

[00:11:25] a lot more daily innovation and maybe the gains that we're making in foiling knowledge are a bit

[00:11:31] bigger than traditional knowledge on normal keelboats and stuff because those have been

[00:11:36] sailed for so long and it's harder to make really big changes and understanding about the boat.

[00:11:42] But yeah, I feel like every time I go out, I'm learning a ton and so much of it is just

[00:11:48] trial and error. Like I'm the biggest believer. I care a lot about like safety on

[00:11:53] foiling boats and stuff, especially double handed foiling boats because you're obviously like

[00:11:57] in charge of taking care of your crew, right, and everyone's lives can be put at risk if something

[00:12:02] goes wrong. And I really feel like foiling skippers of multi-handed, like multi person boats,

[00:12:10] they should really sail a single handed foiling boat. So for me, like sailing the A-Cat by myself,

[00:12:16] I've wiped that boat out every way imaginable. You know what I mean? Like I've crashed that

[00:12:21] thing, you know, I've eaten, shed, drank water, you know, because I was learning the boat, right?

[00:12:28] And I was understanding how it reacts. And I think it's important to understand and learn

[00:12:33] these things alone without anyone else on the boat. You know, that way everyone's kept safe. And

[00:12:38] to me, that's important just to spend one-on-one time with the foiling boat and

[00:12:42] understanding how everything works because there is no guidebook, you know. And even if there

[00:12:47] was a guidebook, I mean, foiling is so changing all the time. It wouldn't really work for everyone.

[00:12:53] You sail a variety of boats you talked about. Do you have a favorite? Is your A-Cat your favorite?

[00:12:59] Yeah, the A-Cat's definitely my favorite boat. I mean, the Wettos up there just because it

[00:13:05] was such a great boat to learn on, you know, like it's just very accessible. There's some

[00:13:10] parasailing on it as well. But the A-Cat at this stage in my life and honestly onwards,

[00:13:17] we've got guys winning regattas that's 79, 80 years old on the non-foiling version of the A-Cats.

[00:13:22] But it's just the most amazing boat. The way it just goes through the water even in non-foiling

[00:13:29] mode is just amazing. I mean, they're so well built. They're so fast. I mean, they're a

[00:13:33] sail up, mast up everything. They weigh 160 pounds. They're all carbon fiber. They're

[00:13:39] so fast. Yeah, I love the A-Cat. Most favorite boat ever.

[00:13:42] The biggest differences between a foiling boat and a non-foiling boat like a Vipron so on,

[00:13:48] the obvious ones must be just the speed of having to make decisions.

[00:13:54] Everything coming in more quickly. What else is, what's very different about it that you've

[00:14:01] noticed? So the speed of a foiling boat versus a non-foiling boat is obviously the biggest

[00:14:07] difference and everything's also happening in a different plane. You know what I mean?

[00:14:13] This whole new component which is the boat's distance vertically out of the water that you're

[00:14:18] factoring in. But yeah, I mean to me when I'm sailing a foiling boat versus a non-foiling boat,

[00:14:27] if I get onto a Viper after an A-Cat regatta or I'm about to fly down to Miami to race VX1s,

[00:14:34] for me when I'm on a VX1 or a Viper everything is in slow motion. I go up three of all this time,

[00:14:40] right? Everything's happening so slow and the boat's so stable because it's not just going to

[00:14:46] drop out of the sky for no reason because you had an air bubble funny or something.

[00:14:52] Yeah, so just the decision making is happening really fast on the A-Cat and I'm thinking a

[00:14:57] lot of steps in advance. I'm thinking about a whole other list of things which is like the

[00:15:02] guy in front of me. If he suddenly drops off the foil or he wipes out, am I going to bail high or

[00:15:09] am I going to bail low? You know what I mean? Like how is his foil wash affecting what my boat's

[00:15:14] feeling and yeah there's just a ton happening and you just have to process it so fast and if

[00:15:21] you're not processing it fast it can become unsafe and you're definitely not going to win

[00:15:25] so you just have to be really sharp, really on top of it. Can you control, I know they're on

[00:15:31] sail GP and America's Cup they control, can you control the ride height from?

[00:15:36] Yeah, so one of the reasons I love the A-Cat is because the ride height is controlled by body

[00:15:41] weight and sail trim so when I'm sailing the A-Cat or NACRA 17 the Olympic boat is very

[00:15:47] similar. When we're sailing any kind of those foiling canvarrants there's no wand controlling

[00:15:52] the ride height. Like literally your body movement and your sail trim and your steering is controlling

[00:15:57] everything so you develop this amazing understanding of how the foil is working. You know you're

[00:16:03] anticipating stuff really really quickly and that to me sailing other foiling boats like I've done a

[00:16:09] bit of a little bit of moth and then some 69F stuff as well. Like if the wand didn't work on

[00:16:14] the moth I would understand how it reacted you know versus some other sailors who are always

[00:16:19] used to having the ride height controlled for them. They miss out on understanding just that

[00:16:24] relationship and how important it is. The foiling is the future of sailing that everything is going

[00:16:30] to be foiling it's that sort of generational step change or will it just be a one option like

[00:16:37] windsurfing keel boats and you know catch them around and so on? Yeah I think foiling hopefully

[00:16:44] and it should become more accessible for more people but I don't think it will ever become

[00:16:49] the most mainstream part of sailing you know. It might be the most like televised part of sailing

[00:16:56] or the coolest part to watch because it is interesting to watch but I love displacement

[00:17:01] sailing you know I love foiling sailing I think there's the right place for both of them and

[00:17:06] I think they both require really good sailors but I don't think it would ever replace

[00:17:11] displacement boats. I kind of think about sailing kind of like biking you know there's

[00:17:15] like road cyclists and then there's mountain bikers like there's different it's all riding a bike you

[00:17:20] know there's guys just like cruising on their bike through the park you know there's all different

[00:17:25] aspects of it. It's all biking it's all sailing but there's different stuff for different

[00:17:30] people which is good. So can we have to talk about sail GP so how did that happen for you?

[00:17:37] Yeah it was pretty crazy um it all started with uh there's this awesome pro sailor named

[00:17:44] Kinley Fowler who's incredible and if you ever have the chance to meet him or maybe you could do

[00:17:49] a show with him he's one of the best sailors in the world but I met him in Newport um I was sailing

[00:17:56] foiling NACRA 17s was training with the US Olympic squad and I had my ACAT up there

[00:18:00] and he had his moth so he would go out and sail his moth every day and I would sail my ACAT

[00:18:04] in the morning and my NACRA in the afternoon so I was sailing all day long during the summer

[00:18:10] and the day I was supposed to leave Newport um a text message pops up on my phone at like

[00:18:16] eight o'clock at night and he's like hey we need someone to come out and drive convexity which is

[00:18:20] an m32 for a practice day and I was like oh man like shoot I'm supposed to leave town like

[00:18:26] I don't know if I can do it and then I was like no I got to do it like I'd love to sail

[00:18:29] them 32 so he brought me out with the guys and like that was an incredible experience racing those

[00:18:35] boats it was so cool um and then flash forward a few months I'm sailing moths with American magic

[00:18:43] and I'm on the coach boat with Tom Burnham who's the coach of American magic and uh what's that

[00:18:50] pops up on my phone and it says hi this is Jimmy are you available to come to Christchurch

[00:18:57] and it was like three weeks notice or something it's like are you available to come to Christchurch

[00:19:01] to race with us Kinley Fowler recommended you and so I texted Kinley and I was like is this real

[00:19:07] or like is this like a scammer or something you know like it doesn't really seem real there's no

[00:19:12] profile picture on his whatsapp like this is kind of weird Kinley's like no it's legit like

[00:19:18] Erica had hurt her ankle the previous strategist on the boat so they needed someone to fill in

[00:19:23] I was like oh shit okay so next thing I know I'm in New Zealand which I'd never been to New Zealand

[00:19:29] I'd never been at all over there and I'd always wanted to go longest plane ride of my entire life

[00:19:35] couldn't believe it um I showed up and you know we're doing all the safety training and we're

[00:19:41] seeing the boats and I'm meeting all these insane people who I've looked up to and like

[00:19:45] I can't believe it's like watching a movie like introducing myself to Tom Slingsby you know

[00:19:50] and Spit Hills there and next thing I know I'm doing safety training and getting for safety training

[00:19:56] we keep the spare air canisters on us so it's basically like a tiny scuba tank and if you get

[00:20:01] trapped underneath the boat you're able to have a few breaths you know to get calm and then you

[00:20:07] have a few more breaths to swim out if something really bad happens so no one drowns and for safety

[00:20:12] training you jump in you put the canister on and this like really big strong special forces

[00:20:18] guy is like kind of holding you underwater you know to teach you not to panic when you've got the

[00:20:24] little spare air thing and I look up and I'm like oh my god that's Glenn Ashby who's like an

[00:20:31] ACAT legend like he's won Worlds I don't know like an insane amount of time I've looked up to him

[00:20:36] forever I look up I'm like Glenn oh my god I've always wanted to meet you the next thing I

[00:20:41] know I'm getting pushed under you know they're holding us down trying to breathe out of the

[00:20:45] spare air but it was crazy I mean just meeting those guys was just such such a dream and they were

[00:20:53] all so cool every single person there was incredibly nice incredibly gracious the US team was phenomenal

[00:20:59] so yeah and then getting on the boat was insane because we go into the first practice day got

[00:21:07] canceled because I think it was too windy or maybe there's no wind I can't remember so no

[00:21:12] practice day straight into race day and then they had you didn't have any practice no straight

[00:21:19] that's insane right and so race day they're like don't worry you'll get an hour of practice

[00:21:25] before the first race I'm like I'm shitting bricks I'm like an hour of practice like that's

[00:21:31] nothing oh my god and then they have these protected dolphins in the bay in New Zealand

[00:21:38] and they end up not letting us sail around at all yeah because of the marine mammals

[00:21:46] and I'm like what do you mean we're not going to get this hour of practice before racing

[00:21:50] and the next thing I know they're like okay y'all have 15 minutes to sail the boat

[00:21:55] and then you're racing I'm like oh my like I'm drenched in sweat you know that's insane

[00:22:02] you know and you're trying to like be cool but then like there's cameras on you and stuff and

[00:22:06] it was insane I remember the boat gets up on the foil and it was just moving so fast I'm used to fast

[00:22:13] boats right but like you know 50 knots is like a whole other different level of fast you know

[00:22:19] and Jimmy's like okay like all right go run across you know practice running across the boat

[00:22:25] you know wait you haven't even done that no I hadn't even done that not while the boat was

[00:22:29] moving like on land I ran back and forth like this and it's hard to run across on land I mean

[00:22:34] it's like a legit trampoline you know and I get up and I'm like everything in my body is telling me

[00:22:40] like don't run across like this is dangerous you know maybe crawl across but don't run are you insane

[00:22:46] you know and it was like an out of body experience just sprinting across that thing and the boat's

[00:22:51] like moving so fast and the ground is so unstable I mean after the first couple times it was like

[00:22:57] okay no big deal but the first time I was like I don't know if I'm coming out of this alive

[00:23:03] it was it was unreal so fast your heart rate must have been through the roof on the 30 seconds of

[00:23:11] the start right do you do you call the start tactics uh I mean how could you do that when you've

[00:23:19] never sailed on the boat yeah so it's tricky there's also a lot of starting software that I

[00:23:25] don't know I mean I think some people who really understand to the lgp know about it but

[00:23:29] um they basically tell you like where's the best point on the line to start but I mean achieving that

[00:23:34] realistically is kind of hard but on the wing there's this massive like flat screen tv and it's

[00:23:39] giving you all these information I saw that the other day I saw there was a screen there yeah

[00:23:45] yeah so it's kind of like showing you like how much time do you need to kill before the start

[00:23:50] and we're doing all these calculations and the biggest thing is just being aware of other

[00:23:55] boats you know so a lot of the times on the start um me and the wing trimmer would run across to the

[00:24:02] other side of the boat so we could have eyes to lure to tell Jimmy when other boats were setting up

[00:24:07] and trying to help with timing and that kind of stuff but yeah no it's the starting stuff is

[00:24:12] pretty pretty difficult in that fleet and you're so close to it you've got some very

[00:24:17] aggressive yeah highly experienced drivers there who know they're on tv as well and it's part of it but

[00:24:26] you know Ben Ainsley's and all the other drive I mean that's that's it's crazy incredibly intimidating

[00:24:32] I already enjoy it I don't I don't know if I'm not a sailing purist haven't done it for long

[00:24:36] enough I don't know what people think about it but I think it's it's uh it's a fascinating

[00:24:40] watch yeah it totally is and the reach starts are crazy too I mean I had done a lot of

[00:24:46] reach starting luckily leading up to it in the 69Fs which are the foiling monoholes the three

[00:24:52] person ones so I was really familiar with them but I was like thank god I had done all that reach

[00:24:56] starting practice because otherwise you're not really doing it that much and the normal sailing

[00:25:01] that I'm doing and for most foiling boats like you don't want to reach you know that's like

[00:25:06] the no-no square that's a little too fast you know I'd rather go upwind or downwind so um

[00:25:12] you know the wing trimmer is working really hard the flight controller is working really hard and

[00:25:17] yeah it's cool it's a really interesting dynamic doing the reach starts for sure

[00:25:21] it's cool for TV too I think it's probably one of the amazing it is it is ridiculous I'm curious

[00:25:28] about the is the is the wind shadow for these boats the same as on a the same size sort of

[00:25:34] conventional boats yeah you're still thinking about the wind shadow of other boats a lot um

[00:25:40] especially because it could cause you to drop off of the foil yeah and then you drop off the foil I mean

[00:25:44] that's just like that's game over you know you're dead at that point so yeah there's a lot of

[00:25:50] anticipating different wind shadows and you really want to keep your air clear to stand the foil

[00:25:55] especially in marginal stuff like super heavy wind you can kind of get away with it but marginal

[00:26:02] game over yeah absolutely yeah so no different well I suppose the difference is that right when

[00:26:06] she drop off the foil there's such a such a huge difference going around the the marks especially

[00:26:12] sort of that downwind mark um that looks like this there's g-forces you go around the corner right

[00:26:19] yeah the the tacks um I remember being on board the first tack we did and the Canadian strategist

[00:26:28] I talked to her a couple weeks ago I'd seen her in Pensacola or something

[00:26:32] and she was like hey like my biggest advice to you is just tuck your hips into the cockpit

[00:26:37] when you do your first tack and I'm like what do you mean like she's like you know just like

[00:26:42] nestle in there because you're standing the whole time you're not sitting or anything

[00:26:45] I was like oh okay so I remembered her saying that and I like tuck into the cockpit kind of

[00:26:50] squat a little bit so I'm kind of underneath it and the g-forces and the tack were so strong

[00:26:58] it was like my vision narrowed the first time and I felt like I was on one of those carnival rides

[00:27:04] where you're like stuck to the wall you know because they spin around it was like knocked the wind out of

[00:27:10] you strong the g-forces and the turns like you don't really see it on tv and when you're watching

[00:27:16] it on the broadcast but the first time you experience it and if you're not braced for it

[00:27:20] it's like it'll just fling you straight out of the boat if you're not careful that those are

[00:27:24] crazy the turns to like the roundups and stuff those didn't feel as bad but the tacks because

[00:27:29] we're going through such a wide angle so quickly and you don't want to lose speed and drop off the

[00:27:33] foil are pretty aggressive for sure so I was interested you said you stand yep yep so the

[00:27:39] flight controller sitting they're pretty like crouched they've got a little seat um I'm

[00:27:44] standing Jimmy's standing but a lot of the times as the strategist you try to kind of get as

[00:27:51] small as you can because you don't want to create more windage yeah same with the grinders you'll see

[00:27:55] them get on their knees sometimes because they're trying to be less windage which really slows the

[00:27:59] boat down um so yeah that's a consideration too as many as three right you do you must have done

[00:28:06] New Zealand and chicart do you do chicago as well and somewhere else right yeah I did chicago

[00:28:10] and san franc as well yeah were they completely different venues you have to learn all over

[00:28:15] again or would you be able to get up the learning curve yeah I mean the learning curve was great

[00:28:21] it was also cool because I did the first event where there was actually a panel for the strategist

[00:28:27] so my last event I was doing like jib lead trim you know and then I would steer the boat out of

[00:28:33] the maneuvers and then I could also swap the rudders and so it was neat like it was like

[00:28:39] I'm driving out of this tack and now I'm reaching down and I'm pressing all these buttons and

[00:28:44] like that was really cool because it felt like each time I got back on the boat we were adding more

[00:28:50] responsibilities on as well as like being a strategist right so looking around the race

[00:28:55] course and communicating that kind of stuff it was cool to finally do some controls as well

[00:28:59] yeah we talked to um a little bit ago about uh about communication right and about it's

[00:29:07] very different you have headphones on and presumably you you have no time to repeat

[00:29:13] something because by the time you repeat it that you'll through the maneuver is that was that

[00:29:17] something to get used to as well or or when you're foiling I suppose with a crew with a teammate on

[00:29:22] on another foiling boat the speed is not the same but the same imperative right to be able to

[00:29:29] communicate very quickly yeah absolutely I mean um for sales you pee we've got like the in-ear

[00:29:35] headsets right so they're like little earphones because the wind noise is so loud you couldn't

[00:29:40] talk to someone even right next to you um but there's a lot of you know emphasis put on not

[00:29:47] clogging the comms so if one person's talking on the airwave or whatever the radio wave

[00:29:54] someone else can't talk so my job is to speak as quickly as I can and say as few words and take

[00:30:00] up as little time in that airway if that's possible so that if someone else has something

[00:30:05] really important to say they can say it into the um into the radios so when you sail like the nacre 17

[00:30:13] or when I'll sail like the 69F it's that same thing we need to be like super succinct and we

[00:30:18] want to say as few words as possible so it gets communicated really fast so sometimes we'd almost

[00:30:23] have not code words but words that meant something to everyone on the crew so like

[00:30:29] still GP we'd have a playbook so if we said this word it meant you know we're gonna round this gay

[00:30:36] right or we're gonna drive immediately or tack immediately um for the nacre as and stuff we

[00:30:42] would talk about like uh when we'd hit like our bottom angle or something so that meant

[00:30:47] the driver's not going to steer any lower from there and um yeah there's a lot of importance

[00:30:53] placing on how do we talk quickly and clearly make sure everyone's on the exact same page

[00:30:59] you know there's no time to be wishy washy or have a conversation about something it has to

[00:31:04] happen like immediately um and that's the kind of thing that if I'm sailing a big keelboat isn't

[00:31:11] super applicable in light wind but as the breeze gets heavier it's harder to hear each other speaking

[00:31:18] right and you want to communicate super clearly to everyone on board so I think that's a great

[00:31:24] thing to carry over is how do I communicate clearly have everyone on the same page

[00:31:28] and another thing is as you get physically exerted it's harder to speak right like it's harder to say

[00:31:35] stuff because your heart rate so high and it's even harder to control your tone so you could come

[00:31:41] across as sounding like you're yelling at your teammate or something but you're not you're just

[00:31:45] exerted so a lot of that's like how do you get your heart rate down when you're communicating

[00:31:49] and how do you you know focus on tone at the same time it's being succinct and there's

[00:31:56] just it's a total art form being able to communicate well on the boat for sure so you have to consciously

[00:32:01] work on that oh yeah because I understand the problem yeah yeah absolutely so um can we go back

[00:32:08] to your role as strategist because I'm fascinated by this so um I'm into title you know the word

[00:32:13] strategies versus tactician because um when you when you're entering the starting box whatever

[00:32:21] they call it for sale GP are you talking about which side of the course is better or yeah does that all

[00:32:29] go to hell and it just becomes less of strategy like that and more about tactics as soon as you

[00:32:35] round that first term mark so a lot of the strategist pre-start because obviously it's a restart

[00:32:43] so I guess the question is more um when do you job right once you round that first mark

[00:32:50] so a lot of the time we would talk about um how far away the lay line was going to be after that

[00:32:55] initial job down to the mark if you could do one in in or if you'd have to do two job three jobs or

[00:33:02] um whatever so yeah I mean the strategist is looking a lot more big picture like where's

[00:33:06] the better pressure at right it's not as focused on immediate tactical decisions um so that was

[00:33:13] really cool you know big picture kind of stuff and then I mean still we're doing a lot of like

[00:33:20] making sure there are no collisions that kind of stuff because the blind spots on the

[00:33:23] boats are pretty significant when you're driving you can't see it yeah a lot of the times like upwind

[00:33:29] I would end up running maybe halfway across the boat to the pod or maybe all the way to the

[00:33:34] lured side to make sure we weren't in danger of getting hit or hitting someone

[00:33:39] yeah um who's coming at you at uh 50 knots right so like knowing how to call across like

[00:33:47] that's so important like calling crosses is like the number one job on that boat for sure

[00:33:54] on that on the tv they did a very good job of showing ladder lines and lay lines and that sort

[00:33:59] of thing which makes it uh it makes it very easy as a television viewer or a I'm looking at youtube

[00:34:07] really um to understand what's happening but sometimes I wish they'd take that away from you

[00:34:13] because then you get a much better idea of what's really you know the you have no idea where you are

[00:34:17] in the ladder line well I mean I mean not as accurately as you do on the um are you sort of

[00:34:23] aware of that that the the video audience has that sort of picture of what's going on yeah

[00:34:29] absolutely unfortunately they miss a lot of like what's going on on board the boats too it's

[00:34:33] hard to cover so many boats in the fleet I think there was a way I'm sure it's still

[00:34:37] like this but you could get the onboard camera of just one boat um while you're

[00:34:41] watching select you can select sometimes you can see out of the corner of your eye that the

[00:34:48] now the sort of German boat the french boat they're going to have a really tricky crossing

[00:34:51] right the camera hasn't really spotted that you're like what I mean it's very hard because

[00:34:56] there's so much action happening all over the place but yeah I think it's fun it's fantastic

[00:35:01] to watch I really enjoy it I look forward to it I think they do a good job of making it a

[00:35:05] sort of a bit of a grand prix given the people involved and so on so yeah what was it like

[00:35:14] coming literally back down to earth or back down to water do once you've done foiling especially

[00:35:20] sail GP when you return to keel boats or dinghies and you said it feels like everything's a slow

[00:35:26] motion but it but has the the speed of events in foiling especially cell gb as that helped you

[00:35:34] think ahead does it improve the way that you've thought ahead does it improve what you're doing

[00:35:38] with keel boats and dinghies yeah totally I mean especially um when you get on the a cat because

[00:35:45] up to that point the faster boats that I was sailing was they cat 69 f that kind of stuff um

[00:35:51] and there are definitely moments on the a especially when you're in breeze and it's wavy where the

[00:35:56] boat gets really loose you know like she wants to crash down or shoot straight out of the water

[00:36:02] and it's kind of scary during those moments and everything feels like it's fast like it's out of

[00:36:06] control and then after doing cell gb I got on the a cat and I was like god this is easy like it's not

[00:36:12] easy but it's safe and it's slow you know what I mean so that to me was just such a great learning

[00:36:20] because they cat suddenly was not near as intimidating as it was um and it felt really manageable in

[00:36:26] breeze which is an area I've kind of struggled in because I'm one of the smaller guys by guys

[00:36:31] girl but I'm one of the smaller people in the fleet and in big breeze that definitely makes

[00:36:36] a difference so has it helped you in big breeze oh yeah totally I feel just like um well I'm still

[00:36:44] under control the boat but I just feel like the boat's gonna do what I want for it to do

[00:36:48] all the time and breeze now nothing feels scary anymore which is great it's a good thing well

[00:36:53] I love that so Cam when it comes to uh preparing for a gata and it could be an a cat regatta it

[00:36:59] could be a vx vx1 regatta or or cell gp um what is there a routine that you go through that you

[00:37:08] has worked for you that you stick to yeah absolutely I mean it's important especially

[00:37:14] on the foiling boats they become very athletic and you know the vx1 is still an athletic boat

[00:37:19] and honestly keel boats are too especially if you're doing bow or something so I think the

[00:37:24] really important thing is being physically prepared you know proper nutrition proper hydration

[00:37:30] mobility stretching before you even get down to the boat park so that's kind of where everything

[00:37:35] starts for me and then just making sure your boat set up that you've done all the boat work

[00:37:42] nothing's gonna break you know you really want to trust your boat and trust every piece of

[00:37:46] equipment on the boat and like for me as a skipper sailing the a cat or the nackerel like

[00:37:52] I wanted to be responsible for every single little lashing on the boat because I knew that

[00:37:56] I could trust what I was doing when you get onto bigger boats like that 50 or a big monohull

[00:38:02] you have to trust your teammates right so there's that whole component of it is like believing

[00:38:06] in your team but also believing in the importance of putting in proper prep work and

[00:38:11] proper time setting the boat up and everything so yeah the foiling boats I mean it's constant

[00:38:17] boat work everything breaks everything has a shelf life you've got to make sure it's set up well

[00:38:23] that your foils are tuned properly the rigs tune properly so I care a lot about how the boat is

[00:38:29] set up because it can just ruin your regatta like if something silly breaks your tiller extension

[00:38:35] or your I don't even know a lashing on your main sheet block or something you're out of the

[00:38:41] regatta you only get so many throwouts and I mean I saw it at this past worlds where

[00:38:46] just something broke on a boat and all of a sudden the world championships over you know

[00:38:51] for that person so it's very important to trust everything and focus on keeping it simple and

[00:38:57] correct yeah I've heard from quite a few people about the fact that they there's meticulous

[00:39:03] preparations so that when you get on the boat or at the at the regatta for the day one you

[00:39:08] know you've done everything possible to prepare for it and that must be that then liberates you

[00:39:14] to sort of concentrate on and what's going to happen absolutely I was talking with Dawn Riley

[00:39:20] last week or the week before and she talked about visualization that was a technique that she uses

[00:39:25] I'm just curious about whether use visualization techniques I love the idea of it it's not something

[00:39:31] I do a ton of but I do really believe in you know that mental component of sailing right being

[00:39:36] in the right headspace I love box breathing I do quite a bit of that before each start you know just

[00:39:44] to keep the heart rate nice and low and focused and then sometimes when you're foiling and stuff gets

[00:39:51] scary you know it gets sketchy boat starts moving really fast it's windy flying too high

[00:39:57] you know just making sure to take a deep breath and get your heart rate down is just so

[00:40:01] important like I spend a ton of time thinking about staying calm dropping the heart rate

[00:40:07] if i'm sailing with someone else coming cross as calm you know because people feed off of your

[00:40:12] emotions and that's a really really important thing is a skipper to keep everyone on board calm

[00:40:18] so yeah I love that she was talking about visualization because I think that is a

[00:40:22] super good thing to implement something that I can definitely add into my routine too

[00:40:27] can you tell us about box breathing then yeah I think it was a navy seals breathing technique

[00:40:32] fact check me on that but it um centers around kind of bringing you your central nervous system like

[00:40:39] you know getting it normal or back to equilibrium whatever but it's four counts in and then you

[00:40:46] hold for four and then you exhale for four and then you hold empty for four and then you repeat

[00:40:52] that four times and that's why it's a box yep it creates that box shape and I love doing that

[00:40:59] pre-start um for me the minute the um gun goes you know the five minute gun I'm calm like I feel

[00:41:08] great you know but those minutes leading up to especially like at a world championship

[00:41:13] like seven minutes till the start or something like that's when you need to just get focused

[00:41:18] just kind of focus and I always think about my dad always said he's always like go out there

[00:41:22] and do your job you know like get the job done don't have any excuses you know that's

[00:41:29] kind of what I think about when I get out to race it's just doing my job your job very well

[00:41:37] let's talk about um a favorite leg of the course and you and I talked earlier about this and so

[00:41:41] downwind for you is I think you've chosen as your favorite uh favorite leg so tell us about

[00:41:47] that why it's your favorite what you did what you did differently perhaps yeah I've always loved

[00:41:52] downwinds um even on monohulls I've loved trimming spinnaker on downwinds and I love taking advantage

[00:42:00] of each and every little wave right like knowing those moments to focus you know when I'm sailing the

[00:42:05] vx or the viper or something if I surf this wave a little bit better then maybe I get like an

[00:42:10] inch better than my opponent and over the course this whole down leg that's all gonna

[00:42:15] add up and the next thing you know I've got inside overlap and it's game over for that guy

[00:42:19] so like on the foiling boat it's a little different but not really it's like how can I focus

[00:42:26] as much as possible on the quality of my foiling so making sure that I'm hitting max speed and

[00:42:32] I'm staying at max speed as long as possible without having to go through that whole rebuild

[00:42:37] speed cycle situation um that's how you win those downwind legs but at the same time

[00:42:42] you've got to be super tactically aware of what's going on like what's the breeze doing

[00:42:46] what's your opponent's doing how is the wave state changing you know it's your sail trim right all

[00:42:52] that kind of stuff so I think a ton about prioritization um and picking moments to look around

[00:42:59] right picking those moments to focus outside of the boat and then picking others to focus inside

[00:43:04] of the boat um when I sailed the nacre my crew and I we'd have like a communication where

[00:43:11] I'd be like okay your boat and that meant I needed to look around and he needs to keep the boat

[00:43:17] foiling super well you know he needed to just focus we can't both be looking around at the same time

[00:43:22] so that kind of thing happens as well on silgy p boats where you know jimmy will be like I got

[00:43:27] to take a look around or something or I'll be like jimmy look at this you know and then

[00:43:31] everyone else will be focused on the inboat stuff keeping the boat moving fast while the helm's

[00:43:35] looking around um I think the vx1 we do the same thing upwind same thing downwind just communicating

[00:43:43] those moments of what your priority is to the rest of the people on the team

[00:43:48] I love your emphasis on maintaining boat speed as much as acquiring boat speed that's that's

[00:43:53] critical for you right especially I suppose in foiling obviously if you come with the foils

[00:43:58] your your toks don't you yeah absolutely I mean on foils too you can foil but you can foil slow

[00:44:06] you know just because the boats out of the water doesn't mean that the boat's moving as fast as

[00:44:11] it possibly could be moving at that moment on the foiling canons we have differential so that

[00:44:16] means that the windward rudder is essentially sucking the windward hole down the lured ones

[00:44:21] lifting it up so they cat all of a sudden thinks I'm an 800 pound man you know that's

[00:44:25] what writing moment is created by the rudders so when the differential gets working the faster and

[00:44:31] faster you go the boat just locks in and gets ripping but you have to pick those moments when

[00:44:37] you look around and all of a sudden the boat stops ripping and now you've got to rebuild

[00:44:41] everything totally um so I think it's just really important to prioritize and then same on

[00:44:48] the kill boats and stuff too like when you're going downwind and you've got a nice wave surf

[00:44:55] happening right you're going for depth at that moment you know knowing that moment to come back

[00:44:59] up and get a little bit more flow on the sails it's all a field thing but it's also a communication

[00:45:05] thing of what you're intending to do and when you're looking around and all that kind of stuff

[00:45:10] so important your most comfortable sailing with one of the crew or single-handed or multi

[00:45:18] what where's your preference you know I I sail a lot single-handed but I really do love sailing

[00:45:25] with other people just pretty lonely on a single-handed boat it's really only okay if you have like

[00:45:30] training partners and people to talk to it's otherwise it's just like by yourself all the time

[00:45:37] um I loved I do some f18 sailing with the female crew and I love that but I've done a

[00:45:43] ton of three-person sailing um the viper was kind of my main boat growing up on the Gulf Coast it's the

[00:45:50] Gulf Yachting Association boat so we compete against other yacht clubs and a capitol kind

[00:45:54] of setting representing our yacht clubs so I honestly probably the majority of my sailing has

[00:45:59] been double probably triple handed sailing on the viper a ton and you prefer that to single-handed

[00:46:08] yeah yeah definitely as long as you and your crew get along if y'all don't get along then

[00:46:13] I would rather be by myself you know it's important to get along with the other person

[00:46:17] otherwise it's just miserable for everyone and so you were saying earlier you'd rather sail

[00:46:23] with somebody who you have a great relationship great bond with who may not be the best sailor

[00:46:30] is that is that am I characterizing that correctly yeah absolutely I think crew chemistry is one

[00:46:36] of those things that you can work on but if it's not initially there it's never going to be

[00:46:41] there um so I think I'd rather sail with someone who I click with I get along with we mutually

[00:46:47] respect each other and grow as sailors together versus sailing with someone who's already really

[00:46:53] good sailor but maybe they've got a horrible ego or something you know and you're constantly

[00:46:57] clashing on the boat like I don't care if you're two of the best sailors in the world if

[00:47:01] you don't get along you're not going to get the boat around the race course properly you know

[00:47:06] so um thinking of egos going back to sail gp I mean there must have been a bunch of egos in that

[00:47:12] in that room right uh or on the course I mean that must have been uh interesting what was so

[00:47:17] I've got to ask I've no idea whether Jimmy Spitler's a big ego or not I don't I don't know

[00:47:21] but but what was he like man he was just the nicest kindest guy I've ever met I've never

[00:47:28] seen someone just lead a team that effectively and he was just respectful all the time and even

[00:47:36] when we were in the shit he was still just awesome awesome teammate to have it was just such an honor

[00:47:43] to sail with him and honestly everyone on that US team was amazing like every single person was

[00:47:48] super welcoming you know it was like everyone was focused and professional right but no one

[00:47:54] was mean or there was none of that everyone was there to do their job and to get along while

[00:47:59] they were doing it so I mean honestly I didn't meet a single person in the entire league who wasn't

[00:48:04] incredibly welcoming and just fabulous sailor trying to help you learn so it was great super

[00:48:09] positive experience when you think of the people involved and the little I know about them they

[00:48:15] seem to be a good set of people um and and it feels sometimes that the sail gp tries to create

[00:48:22] drama I don't know if that's because of the they're trying to get an audience and it's good for social

[00:48:27] media you know some the one of the guys talked about hey the next generation he implied the

[00:48:32] next generation really needs to uh tell what they could do and and there's sometimes the

[00:48:39] you know I think Ainsley was in clashers a couple of times on the you know in high pressure

[00:48:44] moments on the mic with uh it was sort of a hot mic but uh that felt quite artificial actually

[00:48:51] didn't feel that didn't feel real what was what was your experience yeah I mean I understand they've

[00:48:57] want to increase viewership it's the same as like formula one and their drive to survive

[00:49:01] kind of stuff right I mean at the end of the day the sailing world is small and then that top

[00:49:07] chunk of high performance sailors is really really small like everyone's been on a team with

[00:49:12] everyone else at least one point in their sailing career and everyone's friends at the

[00:49:17] end of the day like you don't want to make enemies with anyone because you'll probably get on a boat

[00:49:22] with them in the next year and for the most part everyone kind of gets along which is good

[00:49:28] and but it is high stress right like those high stress situations can bring out the worst in

[00:49:32] people right so a lot of that is about managing that and being aware of you know what your words

[00:49:39] do to other people and that kind of stuff yeah you throw in those questionable umpire calls

[00:49:44] sometimes and uh that just leads to I know I can imagine it is and pressures enormous do you

[00:49:51] squeeze boat speed out of the absolute your boats that other people don't I mean obviously you are

[00:49:58] how do you know how you're doing that is it obvious to you what you're doing differently

[00:50:03] you know I think a ton about boat speed I think it's one of the more important parts of

[00:50:09] racing sailboats right because you can get away with a lot of bad stuff if you're sailing

[00:50:13] fast you know can get you out of sticky situations um I spend a lot of time training with my

[00:50:20] vicaris or a speed instrument so I spend a lot of time creating feel like seeing how fast I'm going

[00:50:27] if I can hit my pullers upwind you know if I'm sailing the viper the vx or something like

[00:50:33] in my head the front of my mind is just constantly like searching for speed I'm always

[00:50:37] searching for speed like I can't let it go um so for me like I'm always keeping flow when I'm

[00:50:44] sailing especially if I'm sailing in chop you know that kind of stuff is so important and

[00:50:50] I'm always thinking about flow in the sense that not just like flow where it'll create

[00:50:55] lift kind of in the vertical sense you know like while I'm foiling the faster I go the

[00:51:00] more I'm gonna foil right the better I'm gonna foil but I'm also thinking about it's going

[00:51:05] to get me like up the race course up the ladder rungs if I'm sailing a keelboat or something just

[00:51:09] maintaining flow getting those foils to work really well um but yeah I'm always trying to squeeze every

[00:51:17] tenth of a knot of speed out of the boat that's all I'm really thinking about for a good chunk

[00:51:22] of the race for sure yeah that's interesting you say that so you're always searching looking

[00:51:28] ahead searching for that extra extra bit speed out of the boat that's fascinating yeah yeah

[00:51:35] yeah I mean a lot of it's just like focus and your ability to focus on the right things at the

[00:51:40] right time but like ideally if I've got someone else looking around the boat and I'm sailing

[00:51:45] like the Viper or something I would love to just look at that speedo and just walk in you know

[00:51:50] really get the boat up and ripping and once I've got it in a nice stable spot at the right

[00:51:55] speed that's the moment that I can kind of look around and you know decide what to do next but

[00:52:01] boat speed is just it's so important um for sure speed first before anything yeah I mean starts

[00:52:08] first right because it's way easier to do tactics if you're in first you know looking behind you

[00:52:13] but yeah if you didn't have the best start or you did have the best start then you focus on

[00:52:17] the speed for sure but yeah love boat speed favorite part of sailing is just seeing how

[00:52:22] consistent I can get the boat moving fast well well can this has been a fascinating conversation I

[00:52:29] knew it would be but this is amazing you're already you have a ridiculous resume already of sailing

[00:52:33] and achievement so congratulations um you know I can only imagine what you're going to go on to do

[00:52:40] from here for sure so thank you so much for spending time with sailfast I really appreciate it

[00:52:46] and the very best of luck with the season coming up and the world championships and

[00:52:52] I can't wait to see what you do this year and beyond awesome thank you so much Pete I really

[00:52:57] really enjoyed it wonderful staff thank you very much