Dawn Riley on leadership, team management, and helming to win...

[00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Sailfaster. I'm so glad you're here and

[00:00:16] I do hope that you are finding this series to be useful. Thank you for the comments

[00:00:23] and suggestions. I really appreciate those, read all of them. You know, I particularly

[00:00:28] like the suggestion that a couple of you had about focusing future episodes on particular

[00:00:35] parts of the race course. So having an episode dedicated to starting for example or an

[00:00:40] episode dedicated to downwind or finishing or that kind of thing, I thought it was a great

[00:00:46] idea. Maybe bring in a couple of experts with perhaps contrasting points of view. So

[00:00:53] love the idea, stand by while I figure out how to make that work and hey I don't know about

[00:00:57] you but I'm so looking forward to the new sailing season that has come up. I mean the weather

[00:01:03] is really warming up nicely here in Washington DC. I think we're about six weeks away from

[00:01:09] the opening regatta which is pretty exciting. Over the winter I think I've read every book

[00:01:16] I could find on tactics and I've watched every video on webinar but the trick is of course

[00:01:22] this is going to be what I can actually apply any of that's on the water this year. There's

[00:01:27] many of you know it's our second year racing our J1-05 that we call London Calling in

[00:01:33] the Annapolis J1-05 fleet which is pretty competitive. We're hoping to have a marked improvement

[00:01:40] on our first season. Well we actually did a care thought thanks in large part to having

[00:01:46] a town so crew of Cynthia and Steve and Maggie and Jen and Dan and Mora and then for this

[00:01:52] year we have a brand new Concent Maine sail, we have new winchers, we've even got a new

[00:01:58] backstake pump so she'll be out of the water next week so we can take a look at the bottom

[00:02:04] paint and the foils though I'm expecting beef Lee Marines fabulous work last year on London Calling

[00:02:11] to have held up well. There is much to do, we need to get cracking as we say in England. I've got

[00:02:20] a great episode for you today. I'm thrilled to say I got to meet sailing legend Dawn Riley

[00:02:25] at the renowned Oakcliffe Sailing Centre a few weeks ago. I know Dawn's been interviewed hundreds

[00:02:31] of times over the years but I really tried to hone in on her thoughts on getting boats and teams

[00:02:38] to sail faster so hopefully we got somewhere to that goal as you'll hear our episode touched on

[00:02:45] so many things managing campaigns and teams race prep nutrition and we spent a fair amount of time

[00:02:51] on her approach to helming which I thought was really useful. Oh and we also talked about what

[00:02:57] it's like to be tested to the limits by not only the Southern Ocean I found out but also by

[00:03:05] the kids that she's learning to teaching to sail which I thought was hilarious. I thoroughly enjoyed

[00:03:12] our chat Dawn is inspiring gracious and hilarious too actually as probably everyone who

[00:03:19] is listening to this podcast knows Dawn is one of the foremost sailors for the Monira. She's famous

[00:03:24] around the world she was the first woman ever to manage an entire America's cups syndicate

[00:03:29] as she's the first American man or woman to sail in three America's cups and two whip-bred

[00:03:34] around the world races and let's zoom in on that for a moment Dawn was the first woman to have an

[00:03:38] active role on any America's cup team which she did in 1992 was a pit person and then in 1995 she

[00:03:46] captured an America 3 which is the first women's team in the America's cup and also outside the

[00:03:52] America's cups she was Skipper of Hynacom which was the only all women's entry in the 93 94 whip-bred

[00:03:59] around the world race and of course if you haven't seen it already you must watch the film

[00:04:04] maiden it's the really an epic story of the first all women's team in the 1989 to 90 whip-bred race

[00:04:13] in which Dawn stars along with Tracey Edwards, Mandy Swan, Claire Warren and others it's great

[00:04:19] it's a great watch. Dawn is also you know famously a passionate advocate for the sports of sailing

[00:04:26] under her leadership the Oak Cliff Sailing Central Long Island has become one of the

[00:04:30] you know the foremost providers of community access in the sports of sailing and that's why

[00:04:37] I met actually for a recording on a snowy snowy winter stay in Long Island New York. Hey you'll

[00:04:43] find the audio quality changes a little as we were in a bit of an echoey room I do hope that

[00:04:49] doesn't enjoy that doesn't spoil your enjoyment of what was a really terrific discussion take a listen

[00:04:56] Hi everybody I am thrilled to be here with Dawn Riley at Oak Cliff Sailing Centre in

[00:05:13] in Lyleland where it's actually a beautiful day even though it's about 30 degrees and a snow

[00:05:17] around but Dawn gave me the tour of amazing facilities here for living, repairing, storing,

[00:05:26] everything, sail making, rigging amazing, amazing establishment you have here. So thank you

[00:05:33] very much for taking the time and I know you must be incredibly busy. Thank you yes we're busy

[00:05:37] everybody asks us what we do in the winter and I said with a hundred votes if we don't have a

[00:05:41] vacation we're repairing them fixing them preparing them for the next summer this summer it would be

[00:05:47] the commuter race plus the match votes that Matt Tracey has aggressive so you break votes then we

[00:05:53] had the high performance with the Ilka sailors going for the Olympic trials right now in Florida

[00:05:58] and when we're across the street you notice that one of our young young people forgot her measured

[00:06:03] in sale so that's going to fat hats. So it's never boring here and it's never slow. I did see

[00:06:11] that matracing about being repaired from it look like it had quite severity but we know that

[00:06:17] extremely severe team T-bone we had to cut the deck there's a video on our Facebook page

[00:06:22] of them using the chain pull to after they cut the deck and split the seam to pull the whole

[00:06:26] deck up and they're rebuilding it from the outer skin in. Yeah I mean fantastic learning and training

[00:06:33] right for people involved. I have to say I was slightly afraid at how excited all of the team was

[00:06:38] to cut a boat in half. That's what you do we were talking about matracing is must be unbelievable

[00:06:49] tactical training. I've never done matracing but I've seen plenty of it on YouTube it's just amazing

[00:06:56] from the tactical. Tactical strategic emotional training just for your competitive nature, crewwork

[00:07:05] everybody working together because in matracing I'm like most fleet racing you can't just

[00:07:10] sail off to the right hand side and catch a shift and end up in front is you and the person

[00:07:16] that you're racing against one-on-one offense defense stay between your guy and the group

[00:07:21] all the sports analogies and the races are usually 12 minutes long so you do multiple multiple

[00:07:28] races in each day. You have no time to wallow you have to get your head back together and do it again

[00:07:35] so it makes losing less painful of course unless you lose the last race. Yeah. Yeah that means

[00:07:42] the other guy has one the whole thing. The other thing must do apart from all of those is just

[00:07:47] really drum into the rules, mock roundings, mock roaches and there's slightly different rules when

[00:07:53] you have to read appendix seed like for instance there's no rule 17 so at a fleet race you come in

[00:07:58] front behind and then you're restricted in how high is coming from high to low. You can sail

[00:08:04] to the proper course but you can't go ahead and let them in matracing the minute you get a piece of

[00:08:09] them you can hook them as hard as fast as you can. Had them up to win but you have to give them the

[00:08:16] opportunity not to crutch which is something to keep trying to reclaim or be open about with.

[00:08:21] You can use the rules aggressively but you're not supposed to crutch the boats so what it does

[00:08:27] is it forces you to understand the rules at any one point in the race and it's quick and it's

[00:08:31] fast and it's aggressive. So when I have like a parents of a 420 sailor so I want to get my

[00:08:37] kid into college what do you have in 4 you know fj's or 420's so no no no no send them to the

[00:08:43] world matracing tour academy that will do them better for any kind of racing for their future

[00:08:50] especially for college because they'll know the rules will be a huge step above for anybody else.

[00:08:54] It must be that the quick thinking and just the ability to execute maneuvers without

[00:09:01] the slightest error again and again and again snap back and forward is it's fantastic watching.

[00:09:07] Well it's a goal without the slightest error but your mind goal against you is to screw you up

[00:09:13] so it puts a lot of pressure on the crewwork. I mean in the sailing around in an apples in a j105

[00:09:20] you don't rarely go head to win with your spedicor up in the middle of a race or and if you don't

[00:09:27] take it down you might have to tap with your spedicor up to keep it clear so it's pretty

[00:09:32] aggressive and it's a lot of pressure on the crewwork it's very physical kind of sailing.

[00:09:37] Yeah it's great I didn't realize how the big device was as well. Yes we were lucky we have

[00:09:43] the match forties which were designed essentially trainer boats and circuit boats when we had the IACC

[00:09:49] boats so that's between 92 and 2007 for the boats that I race by 4 america's cups in so they're

[00:09:57] 40 feet long they're designed for the keel to come up and slide into a container and the mass

[00:10:01] come in two parts because they were traveled around Europe but we've cornered the market on and

[00:10:06] we have all of the boats in existence except for six that are in Singapore right now.

[00:10:11] So so don't obviously there's an incredible amount to talk about and as I said earlier

[00:10:17] I mean I know you've been interviewed million times so I wanted to do something perhaps slightly

[00:10:21] fresh and slightly different so for me as I talked about would love to talk about

[00:10:27] this maybe not all that pressure but leadership managing a team what it takes to win

[00:10:33] love to get some thoughts for you on how are you being successful helming try and unpack

[00:10:37] that as a particular skill and capability and then we'd love to talk more about O'Clepper's

[00:10:43] as a venture as an organisation. Okay where do you want to start first? I'd love to start with

[00:10:47] leadership actually so so leadership of a team a project a campaign is obviously something you thrive

[00:10:55] on it's obviously something is it is it instinctive to you or did you learn it over time?

[00:11:01] It's a good question. First of all leadership is all encompassing it's not a part-time thing

[00:11:07] especially in a sailboat race or a campaign and for me being the the coordinator the director the

[00:11:16] executive director the leader is mental mental gymnastics wake up at three in the morning

[00:11:23] Dennis Connor put it much more succinctly he said you wake up in the america's cup every day trying to

[00:11:28] figure out how am I going to screw them and what are they doing to try to screw me so that's an

[00:11:32] ineligant way of saying it but yeah being in charge and finding a team that pulls together and

[00:11:40] executes perfectly a win-ridden mark grounding in you know the finals of the Louis Vuitton Cup that is

[00:11:46] just pure magic for me and if you train properly it's easy and that I think that's why I much much

[00:11:55] much prefer full team racing and no not teammates full teams racing as opposed to single-handed I

[00:12:03] get that question all the time do you want to race around the world by yourself say no especially

[00:12:08] because nowadays even when it's disallowed like in the bond day globe it seems like they use

[00:12:13] the routers on shore so people that are telling them where to go and you have the computers

[00:12:18] you have expeditions so you're just sitting on a boat that's being controlled by a video game

[00:12:23] controller and you're going around the world whereas post made in we had to really push on

[00:12:28] and we were still using sextons because there was not enough satellites around an

[00:12:33] article area so we couldn't even use this brand new thing called satna because there just weren't

[00:12:38] sets to now waffle so for you then being part of a high performing team is what drives you basically

[00:12:48] yeah I love that I love the fact that and you know I will say that being a leader in a high

[00:12:56] performing complicated team like the america's cup is exhausting then you translate that

[00:13:02] to oakcliffe and it's only people that have been in those america's cup teams that I talked

[00:13:08] to them and they get it instantly I say oakcliffe is like the america's cup that never ends

[00:13:14] just keeps going and ironically on the other side somebody asked me a few weeks ago like

[00:13:20] are you gonna do something else are you gonna retire and I said until I'm bored no

[00:13:26] and I need to be challenged all the time and that's what I get here did you expect when you grew

[00:13:34] up so I think did you expect to be managing in a position where you're managing and leading

[00:13:40] teams again and again and again I said out loud when I was 12 13 that I was going to

[00:13:49] skipper the america's cup and that I was going to race around the world of course when you're 12 or

[00:13:55] 13 one thank god nobody said girls can't do it so I didn't have that negative activity thrown at

[00:14:01] me at that point shortly thereafter yes but also I didn't really know what I meant but at

[00:14:07] least I had that goal yeah I also said I was going to win the I was gonna ski in the Olympics

[00:14:13] and because I didn't even know that sailing was in the Olympics except I knew skiing was in

[00:14:17] the Olympics and then I think earlier than that I came home after winning Field Day and told my

[00:14:22] mom I was going to go to the Olympics in the softball toss which of course is just ridiculous but

[00:14:28] to her you have plenty of options so it's easy to succeed when we have like 92 different things

[00:14:33] you know what I'm doing well yeah a lot of people wouldn't have done that so I read the I think

[00:14:40] you pointed out in a previous interview the Peter Peter Blake great news dealer sailor sailor had

[00:14:45] this point about you when you join in the team you want a basic fiber everybody and re-interview them

[00:14:51] but did you ever actually practice that no kind of so when Peter told me that it was after there

[00:15:01] had been a mutiny on hine again so the second round the world I was flown in by the sponsor hine

[00:15:07] again to come and take over the women's team that had had a mutiny so this was essentially that

[00:15:16] was essentially a failed hostile takeover and I came in and I was doing this is in the time with

[00:15:21] BC and you know all of that you know in the 90s where I was doing a hostile takeover of a startup

[00:15:27] so it was absolutely corporate and I should have listened to Peter and I used the word but

[00:15:34] and that was what I try not to use them because as soon as you hear yourself going blah blah blah but

[00:15:40] but I don't know this team but I don't know this boat but what about this but what about that I

[00:15:44] shouldn't just what am I big girl pennies and fired everybody and interviewed them which I kind

[00:15:51] of did I didn't fire them dramatically interviewed all of them there was one person on the boat

[00:15:57] that I absolutely had misgivings about and I should have fired my replacement for her was not confident

[00:16:06] in taking over and I listened to her instead of empowering her because 100,000% she could have done

[00:16:13] the job as well if not better she's got on to be a captain of industry. And this this the hostile

[00:16:20] takeover was taking place during the race right it was pretty much I was in Michigan on Sunday and the

[00:16:26] race started on the next Saturday so I had a very short window by the time I got to put it to

[00:16:31] last on Tuesday to meet these people to interview them figure out how the sales went up and down

[00:16:38] on Wednesday Thursday sale without any of the men that were trying to help us in other words do all

[00:16:43] the jobs while the women watched on Friday was the only time we sailed without anybody else on the

[00:16:48] boat and I was like this is bullshit and then we started on Saturday it was crazy I would never

[00:16:54] recommend anybody do that but I did. When you for America 3 were you able to choose your own team

[00:17:01] from scratch? No so my first America Cup American Cube was with the men so I was the only team I

[00:17:07] tried out full on try out you know beat my way into the team on the 1995 team I was part of the

[00:17:16] creation of it the manifesto put together the business plan this is the women's team yeah 1995

[00:17:23] the women's team yeah I did all of the legwork the business plan the strategy and then there was

[00:17:30] an attempted coup by one of the husbands of one of the sailors and it all stalled and then I went

[00:17:38] did heineken so by the time I came back it was all full on and being run by the coaches and

[00:17:46] but they're using my blueprint in my business plan and I obviously had a spot on the boat

[00:17:51] I didn't have to try out myself the interesting thing is I was being recruited by another team

[00:17:58] and they were offering me double the money and a guaranteed 18 position they would have been

[00:18:05] it would have been a mixed team because I was there it turns out they did have one other female

[00:18:09] on the sailing team at the end and I really considered hard but I understood at that point how

[00:18:18] important and impactful the women's team was going to be for general society yeah women in sport

[00:18:25] the Atlanta Olympics were the women's Olympics I had been to the women's sports foundation I wasn't

[00:18:32] in the board you know and at that point and so being that young and that naive and that much

[00:18:39] on a treadmill I was like maiden Merkeh women's team second place first place heineken didn't die

[00:18:47] back to do another campaign I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa and somehow I slowed down enough

[00:18:53] to say I think in the real world the way this happens is you take the offer you have from the team

[00:18:59] you don't really want and you go and see up the team you want we'll match it they went sure so I

[00:19:05] doubled my salary which was a whole I think 30 thousand dollars a year yeah well I've got

[00:19:11] the back of the 90s you've been at the forefront of changes in how women in sailing

[00:19:19] oppa see time and time again from going back to maiden I know that was Tracy Edwards and you

[00:19:27] and others that in the america's car is that's just something that comes naturally to you

[00:19:34] to be a bit of a warrior and there's you know listening to you about there's a ton of

[00:19:39] drama around it but you're really comfortable with that drama I would say yeah I'm pretty I don't

[00:19:49] hard-assed I care a whole lot but put it this way in relationships with my boyfriends all acts

[00:19:59] of the moment they will inevitably say stop yelling at me and I will say I am not yelling so when

[00:20:08] I get angry just making my point or upset I get call and that's just the way I've always been

[00:20:18] there I don't like the drama I don't need the drama we have the saying around here that I repeat

[00:20:23] unfortunately too much that stress makes you stupid so that goes back to the preparation you don't

[00:20:28] want to put yourself into a situation where your heart rates up or the blood is rushing through your

[00:20:32] ears where you just simply can't think and you make a stupid decision because you're incapable

[00:20:37] of thinking so you have to call my everything down and I think that goes back to like throwing

[00:20:43] discus and racing ski racing and swimming and all the sports I was lucky enough to do so you

[00:20:49] learned that you learn to control your mind yeah yeah visualize had burst of energy yeah as a

[00:21:00] sprinter in swimming I was a sprinter in track and field except for we had really really good

[00:21:09] sprinter so that it shifted me over to the discus and the shop putt which again is really high

[00:21:14] intensity preparation it's mental because think about it with a discus you're throwing it the way

[00:21:19] you're not looking when you start off so you deck out that mental visualization as you go and then

[00:21:26] for the fun side I also was sailing competitively at that point and so I was 15 years old

[00:21:32] and I was one of the only people on the crew that didn't have a real job so the owner of the

[00:21:38] boats said how about you become the boat captain I said sure my parents were crazy they said sure

[00:21:44] and off I went well they were sailors weren't they were sailors we had just come back to sailing for a

[00:21:48] year when I was 12 turn 13 sail for a full year on our boat all the way from Michigan to Maine

[00:21:54] to Florida to the homies the Virgin's Caribbean Grenada and back but it was sailing almost every day

[00:22:00] and we all stood watch and we learned a lot yeah you talk I've seen some of your writing about

[00:22:09] you've got to feel it don't worry about instruments you've got to feel it but for those of you who

[00:22:14] are lucky to grow up with that it must be they must be very instinctive it is instinctive and

[00:22:21] I don't think it's necessarily because you've grown up with it I don't know if you read somewhere

[00:22:28] but I remember distinctly like cruising Georgian Bay and the Great Lakes in Canada and my dad's

[00:22:36] down below reading a book or navigator or whatever and he yells up get back on course and my sister

[00:22:44] and I are looking each other like how does he know and it's because you can feel the boat yeah you know

[00:22:50] so we thought he was like psychic and scary so my point is is that when you become an adult

[00:22:59] and you have that sense you develop that sense conversely if you're not overthinking it any age

[00:23:08] if you just let yourself feel the boat you will sense what's going on is the boat healing over

[00:23:15] our my toes really really hard soar because I've been standing on tipy toe because I'm healing too much

[00:23:21] is my you know it's my back of my legs sore because I'm sitting down and I'm trying to I'm too flat

[00:23:28] so I'm having to pull myself in so yeah um that all sense stuff I coached a team from that's

[00:23:36] really interesting so it is about not just sensing what's happening on the boat but also

[00:23:42] what you're feeling in your body yeah it might reflect things that you haven't really noticed exactly

[00:23:47] it's amazing so sometimes when I'm just I'm always too busy and always talking to short cuts so

[00:23:53] when I'm out here at a match 40 and like just shut your eyes and listen to your butt

[00:23:57] they're like what but I had a team that I coached from Stan they call him the blind

[00:24:04] and Helm has been now because he was with NASA NASA Ames at the San Francisco this great team of

[00:24:09] literally rocket scientists and they were they hired me to coach them and Stan they all have so

[00:24:16] much brain power and so much knowledge of the instruments and you say trim the sales so that the

[00:24:21] leach is about like that like what's the camera what's the attack what angle of attack they want

[00:24:26] to have numbers indigital I'm like just pull the sale in and Stan would be the same thing he

[00:24:31] get into the instruments and he's such focused on that I said just just just close your eyes

[00:24:36] and everybody would just have to tap into that but it is when you can add the instruments back in

[00:24:42] yeah they help especially when you get all discombobulated yeah they reboot you but then once

[00:24:47] you get into the groove which is more or less there then you're maybe not in the current

[00:24:54] America stuff but in most votes you are then using your senses to your senses are smarter than

[00:25:02] the instruments yeah you will you will feel something before it reflects your both speed you can

[00:25:07] be a lag is no six seconds on both speed yeah that's the thing I want to go back just for a second to

[00:25:14] you talked about you know skiing and all the other sports you did top sports people have

[00:25:20] this ability to make everything slow down but they're able to operate it fast as speed

[00:25:26] and others and it feels like slowing down did you do you do you find that you also talked about

[00:25:31] being calm and in you know maturacing or racing your whether it's around the boys or in the sub-nation

[00:25:40] making the right decision is obviously critical to not just performance but safety as well so

[00:25:46] I just wanted you do you get yourself on the zone when you feel I got this and what's going on

[00:25:51] I can make a decision I feel that often when there's a crisis or when it's just like a really good race

[00:25:57] and everything's working it can be you know you can be knocked out of you by something weird

[00:26:02] that happens but I think in when you're in the beginning part of developing that skill

[00:26:09] it is practice it is preparation it is thinking through as simple as reading the rule book

[00:26:18] and closing your eyes and imagining what that looks like simple port starboard close your eyes think

[00:26:22] about about port starboard so you visualize it and then go back you know when we're luring

[00:26:28] react and then and then you read the rule book just you know part two and then you add in the

[00:26:32] maturacing and then you read Dave Perry's book which goes through those types of things

[00:26:37] you can't just well at least for me I can't just read on paper I'd love to read it's fine

[00:26:42] I don't have any problems with it but I need to when I find that when you're going to do something

[00:26:48] physically action to be able to visualize that and there's different levels of visualization one

[00:26:55] is just like okay there's two boats on a table then you're starting to think about how

[00:27:00] it is on the boat in your position then you're starting to think about what things you're doing

[00:27:04] with your body whether it's the pit or you know pulling a halirot or steering or whatever it is

[00:27:09] how you're leaning in and out then when you get to the ultimate level of visualization it's as if

[00:27:17] you're watching from a helicopter and you can see the sights the colors feel the wind if you

[00:27:23] can add that into your visualization that becomes really easy yeah that's not a trait of top sports

[00:27:28] people isn't it the visualization where whether they're soccer players rugby players whatever it is

[00:27:33] so let's say spend hours and hours thinking through what's going to happen tomorrow right

[00:27:38] and it's a very powerful so it's first time I've heard of you talk about that in sailor

[00:27:44] it's a little more difficult sailing the first time I and and I haven't been trained and I haven't

[00:27:48] gone to sports like hi actress and all that kind of stuff it's just something I do but my coach

[00:27:53] in high school discous coach Hoover he was the one he came back from his conference he told me about

[00:28:00] visualization like yeah yeah yeah yeah and I already talked about the fact when you start the discous

[00:28:05] you're not looking where you're throwing and I have been throwing well over the school record

[00:28:10] but never in bounds so he talked me through visualization he walked out he put his styrofoam white

[00:28:17] styrofoam coffee cup at 120 feet which was past the school record dead center in the middle of in

[00:28:23] bounds said look at that visualize hitting it get to wind up hit it smash the crap out of it

[00:28:32] I'm like oh there's stuff works yeah yeah the other key skill is maybe

[00:28:39] is unique to sailing well that's not neat but but something really important in sailing I'm finding

[00:28:45] is that you've got to know what's going to happen 30 seconds ahead of where you want yes yes

[00:28:50] the bigger the both the more people you have doing it smaller the boat the more one brain has to do

[00:28:55] all that so like an america's cup of you have a strategist who's looking at the whole big picture

[00:29:00] their job is to know that there's another match over here there's a spectator boat that's throwing

[00:29:05] wake the clouds are building behind us so they're looking at the whole overall picture you have the

[00:29:11] tactician who is there doing the boat on boat coaching the helms person and the helms person is literally

[00:29:19] until your actual combat right next to a boat they're executing most of the time they're just

[00:29:25] there is a speed person so there's there's different parts of it and a lot of times the helms

[00:29:32] person gets all the credit when really it's the tactician that is the person who is the most

[00:29:38] experienced the most critical because they have to do exactly that they have to be 30 seconds at

[00:29:45] hand what's going to happen what are we doing what's the other guy doing what's the other guy

[00:29:49] gonna try to do against us and then communicate that to the helms person in the rest of the crew

[00:29:54] so they can execute we had a situation in one of the teams where the tactician said I know what to do

[00:30:00] every time they just can't execute and it was very clear because the tactician was telling the

[00:30:07] helms person about a half a second after it was too late to execute and that happens all the time

[00:30:14] in all kinds of sailing you've got this great quote what it takes to win is everything every single

[00:30:19] thing has to be done as perfectly as you can that's a pretty straightforward statement for life

[00:30:25] exactly but it's so what I'm learning from top sailors is preparation is everything obsessive

[00:30:32] preparation months before weeks before certainly days before and hours before even to the extent of

[00:30:40] I've talked to people who even come down to the boat part get the dock an hour early than

[00:30:45] anybody else just as part of that feeling that there's nothing that's missing I've done every

[00:30:51] single thing possible to get us here but just curious about your take on preparation yeah when I do

[00:30:58] some like boat show coaching sessions yacht up tours that kind of stuff I do a talk which is just

[00:31:03] about how how to race have to race and it's usually an hour long talk plus question and answer

[00:31:11] and about 45 minutes into the conversation I say okay now we're at the starting so 45 minutes of

[00:31:19] the talk is things to do from in the winter deciding your crew from deciding who's going to bring

[00:31:25] sandwiches what are your different options are they're going to bring their own or not do you need a

[00:31:30] cooler or not where's the boat going to be docked what is the schedule do you need backup group

[00:31:35] what sales do you have what boat work to do what is are you going to do rotation how much practice

[00:31:41] are you going to do is there going to be a rule for people that if they practice if they want

[00:31:45] to race they have to practice the answer should be yes so you go through all of that and then you

[00:31:50] get out to the race course and you do all your homework and you sail up winning down when it gets

[00:31:55] to the point there's two like critical funny things that nobody ever thinks about the first one

[00:32:00] is when you have a dock off time you have a dock off time you do not let the owner or the Helms

[00:32:07] person in charge of when you leave the dock because inevitably they will leave the dock 15 minutes

[00:32:13] early because they're anxious and nervous and you've left somebody in the toilet so usually I

[00:32:17] have like a fit person or a trimmer that literally counts down 10 minutes to dock off yeah that's good

[00:32:25] the other one is everybody gets out there and they practice and they go up when they run the

[00:32:31] windward mark bits in or imaginary windward mark they put the spinograph they do one more jive

[00:32:34] one more jive one more jive they take the spinnaker down they have those people pack it

[00:32:40] and then the back of the boat so they're eating sandwiches relaxing and the front of the boat is

[00:32:44] exhausted by the time you get to the second lap because they haven't had a chance to eat

[00:32:49] so you go up you put the spinnaker up you do one or two jives you take it down you help

[00:32:55] get the spinnaker panic and you make sure everybody has food and water before you start

[00:33:00] so this is fantastic advice I must I'm one of those skippers like come on we're going to go we're

[00:33:06] going to go come on it's an hour but I've learned from the top sailors to pay particular attention

[00:33:12] to nutrition Jason Curry talked about your brain is that this the organ that's taking the most

[00:33:21] power you've got to make sure that in the in the game of sailing that people's brains are

[00:33:28] absolutely switched on and for that you need great nutrition and so on and she's good

[00:33:33] when we do offshore races yes we have pringles and pretzels and stuff but we focus on protein and

[00:33:41] vegetables on the distance races we do do freeze-dry food although I'm allergic to the sulfites

[00:33:47] so I will go to bermuda eating walnuts oil eggs carrots some pretzels yeah pretty much nuts

[00:33:56] of carrots and and I don't do any sugar but that's me some people need it with that being said

[00:34:00] the timing is awesome like a kind bar just having a bite or two you can literally feel

[00:34:07] yourself come back yeah I totally get on longer distance races or any sort of offshore overnight but

[00:34:15] even on the sort of an afternoon race you know two or three races making sure people are fueled up is

[00:34:21] yeah and it's different for individuals main peanut butter and jelly are great there's a quick

[00:34:27] whole meal unless you're on a French boat then they get really pissed at you I've learned

[00:34:31] that's not French food but like for me personally I will make sure that I eat in a solid breakfast

[00:34:40] yeah and I will generally not eat on a day race until it's over so I have myself at that

[00:34:46] perfect level of I've got the base but I'm not going to get it with arctic and that's because I

[00:34:52] have a problem with sugar and they prediped it water is uber important water water water water you

[00:34:59] can't drink enough water and a lot of times women don't want to because they're afraid of having to

[00:35:05] use the head which is silly personally I always use the trancem which drives these safety and see

[00:35:12] people crazy but clip in use the trancem I can say you know ladies rooms open everybody looks

[00:35:19] forward you pee you get back to your job it's so much more efficient than going down below and

[00:35:23] struggling over sales and trying to remember if the through hole is open and go into that sticky

[00:35:27] head so on the 1992 team and I was the only female I used to bucket all the time

[00:35:33] and it was because TV cameras and coaches and tenders and other boats and one day a coach was

[00:35:42] on the boat and I handed the bucket up now all the guys on the boat knew what was going on and he

[00:35:48] didn't and the moment I saw him he lifted an office actually when I saw take the bucket edge of

[00:35:54] the bucket by his hand and tip it over so they would keep up with bill water went onto his hand

[00:35:59] and it was warm and he dropped the bucket in the water I was like I got to get another solution

[00:36:04] here so most boats especially bells with open trancems it's super easy and nobody even notices

[00:36:11] I've been using the trancem on an America's Cup boat and the women's team there's if we didn't have

[00:36:15] 18 buckets right yeah so on the women's team we use the trancem all the time and the coaches would

[00:36:21] come up and be having a conversation to winward and not even realize that there was somebody

[00:36:24] being the word so that's probably top tip always peed the word 10 Turner was on the boat

[00:36:29] oh yeah we peed to winward I was so disappointed here's this legend and on the America's Cup

[00:36:35] boat it didn't take a pee this is in 92 and it peed to winward never end up we were going down

[00:36:40] wind but still it ended up all over the boat in his feet I was like all mean wow even the best

[00:36:48] have flaws okay so preparation I love that point about you spent an hour

[00:36:56] coaching people on how to an erase and 45 minutes before you start talking about getting to

[00:37:03] the start the other thing I've noticed is about I'm calling like meticulous application these

[00:37:11] fundamentals so preparation obsessive attention to detail I know people who you know got a new

[00:37:18] J1 or 5 on not a new J1 or 5 and completely taken with the part because they need to understand

[00:37:23] everything that racing platform as they called it it could offer that might have been a

[00:37:30] little bit obsessive did it leap when they put it all back to the top of the hole the

[00:37:36] the holes of the actual holopark but that was that was one fact the other factors for me are we

[00:37:42] talking about team little bit but this notion of unbroken concentration as well that knowing it's

[00:37:48] a game of millimeter by millimeter an inch by inch like Beasy was talking about if you're able to

[00:37:54] be ahead by one millimeter on every wave and there's a thousand waves on a typical beat you're

[00:38:00] going to be able to break an oval act probably at the in a mark does that unbroken concentration

[00:38:06] attention detail that must that I can see that working in around the boobies,

[00:38:11] fibrating that sort of thing but in a long distance race how the heck do you keep up

[00:38:16] concentration here on the helm you just do one thing is is that you if it all possible change every

[00:38:23] hour and so you don't do it for more than an hour so you can maintain that intensity and the way

[00:38:29] you do that in the in the distance race is you have the next person sit next to you and shadow

[00:38:34] you for about five and a minute and you talk through verbally what's happening so I got this wave

[00:38:40] and this happening it would see that we when we hit a battle we lose at least a half and I'm trying

[00:38:44] to fix that I haven't found out the solution yet blah blah blah and then like okay ready they're

[00:38:49] like yep ready and they stand up they take over and they used to go all and you do not need to relax

[00:38:56] a little bit so you should do it change every hour a lot of times here at Oakwood on the bigger

[00:39:03] boats I get stuck steering from way too much and it becomes counterproductive because my job is

[00:39:09] to coach people that at some point I get so tired it's more exhausting for me to coach than it is

[00:39:15] to just do it so that's one thing that we're looking at this year in the beginning of the season as

[00:39:21] I am going to strictly coach tell them some people mansel tremors and just work on them with the

[00:39:27] instruments with the speed loop and get them so that I don't have to be on every boat for us

[00:39:33] to do with all because they're perfectly capable they just don't have the hours and it haven't been

[00:39:38] coached yeah it is a friend of mine for when I talked about it's stick time right making sure you

[00:39:43] have that stick time um for what it's worth I'm you know very new to it but uh it's mentally exhausting

[00:39:50] you end up with a quite severe headache and I go just sort of just because I've been focusing on

[00:39:56] the telltiles and you can do any probably of your network yeah I do it all wrong I'm sure I do it all

[00:40:01] wrong but I'd love to move on to talk about just unpacking your thoughts on um being a world class

[00:40:08] hums person and I know it's instinctive to you I know you've done it for a long time but

[00:40:14] what's what's your salute that you go through when you first grasp the wheel the tiller

[00:40:19] what what goes on the first thing is let me try to do better than the previous person

[00:40:24] and it's a competitive side yeah but it it is just being fully aware of what's going on the angle

[00:40:29] of the way the angle of the horizon yes the telltale side describe it unfortunately sometimes

[00:40:35] I describe it to people under 16 it's like driving a car where you're looking at the rear view mirror

[00:40:40] the road this pedometer your side mirror and you're just going through so it's the same loop

[00:40:44] you're sitting there you're obviously feeling the boat but you're looking at the the telltales

[00:40:51] sometimes the windex if it's really light and crazy that's your biggest most gross actually

[00:40:55] your most gross telltale is your jab but really the windex the telltales the speed the wind

[00:41:02] true wind angle and then the feel of the boat and then you're looking at the waves if you can

[00:41:07] get that loop where you you're getting it down smaller and smaller so it's speed wind uh telltales

[00:41:14] waves speed telltale waves so you're just looking at that and trying to keep the angle of the horizon

[00:41:19] similar uh as people forget that the heel of the boat is over critical because every time it changes

[00:41:30] there's a puff or you've gotten too high and the boat flattens out and anything you do to correct it

[00:41:38] and get it back to the sweet spot and heel is going to slow the boat down we've had to ease the

[00:41:45] main you've had to uh turn the rudder the helms person can only slow the boat down because everything

[00:41:52] they do is is at in resistance so the more you can get all the sales working in conjunction with

[00:41:58] the waves so that you're at the same angle of attack throughout the race the the texture you're

[00:42:04] going to be so i love hearing you talk about heel angle because that's again something i'm learning

[00:42:09] is actually critical to the success of top sailors getting that angle to the horizon right but it's

[00:42:16] um obviously not easy you get knocked off the right heel angle because of waves or conditions

[00:42:21] and also as you said when a when a puff comes you're it's going to change the angle how how do you deal

[00:42:27] so heel angle is critical because it's the most consistent thing right so a boat and each

[00:42:36] whole shape has a different optimal heel angle through lift often the whole shape the heel of

[00:42:42] the foils it's not the same that i see seabotes i think we sail around at 2227 which uh in an ior

[00:42:51] boat you would have been bearing the rail and like dying so each boat it has a different optimal

[00:42:58] heel angle j-24's last time i sailed with eons ago i'm pretty sure their optimal heel angle is

[00:43:04] done right so you sail with a little bit of leahum so it depends on what it is that you are sailing

[00:43:11] but the reason why it's so important is because all of the factors contribute to getting there

[00:43:17] and so then how do you maintain it yes if you can so first of all you pull the sails in and you put

[00:43:23] the crew on the rail just say it's a medium day ten knots pull the sails in put the crew on the rail

[00:43:28] like it's your true wind angle you should have an idea of what it should be and then you're looking

[00:43:34] at your heel angle or just estimating it again one of those plastic things so you have an idea

[00:43:40] don't have to have a heel sensor hooked into your curculeus b and g system it's not that important

[00:43:47] and then you start to sail along you get the feel and then you start to make some fine adjustments

[00:43:51] if it's a totally calm day it should be relatively simple and then your conversation and your

[00:43:56] thought process is this is a really flat water day we have a nice steady wind we're going to have

[00:44:02] a lot of different modes let's try to go into low mode so we we're sitting here we can just come

[00:44:08] out the start line and we need speed and we have nobody to lure so you want to go low mode which

[00:44:13] doesn't mean just ease the sails out and turn the boat means ease the sails out lead forward

[00:44:17] travel or down make sure the bangs not too tight and then you can ease get a little more twist in

[00:44:25] your main then you say okay let's practice we're squeezing we're we've got plenty of speed and we're

[00:44:31] trying to stay above somebody we've gotten a little extra speed let's squeeze up and go one-tenth

[00:44:36] less and move to windward and then you are trimming your sails in cruise hiking harder so you're

[00:44:45] putting more pressure on the boat which would be more heel but you're flattening the sails

[00:44:50] and hiking harder so you're maintaining that heel so you if you can and as again in the

[00:44:57] beginning it's if everybody should practice and take time to do these things because it's part of

[00:45:04] everybody on the boat it might even be if you have an older sail that if you're going into high

[00:45:09] mode your pit person swinging around and giving a crank on the hallye so it's it's it's multiple

[00:45:14] multiple different parts of it everybody has to be aware we're going high mode high mode you

[00:45:19] shouldn't have to say everybody high we are going in high mode we have a boat till lured it should

[00:45:25] just be high mode and everybody goes into that mode I like a point about the it's one constant

[00:45:32] isn't it because the whole shape doesn't change that you can change sails draft all those sorts

[00:45:38] of things and trim obviously but it's that's true that in all conditions that hold us and change so

[00:45:44] you're looking for a consistent heel for the day for the conditions yeah now you talked about a puff

[00:45:51] and a lift so puffs are not always lifts the way the puff is coming down the water at you if

[00:45:57] it looks like a line coming straight across your bow that's going to be enough if it looks

[00:46:02] like a puff that you as a helmsman can't even see in the lines coming parallel to the boat it's

[00:46:07] going to be a lift if it comes generally at 45 degrees it's going to be a puff and they lift but

[00:46:14] that's what we call a velocity lift it's only a lift because you get more wind so that needs to

[00:46:19] be fed to the helms person and the mainsil trimmer in particular because you need to know are we taking

[00:46:26] this this puff is going to be a lift we're going to take maximum or this puffs going to be a lift

[00:46:31] we're going to translate this to bow forward because we've got another boat that we're trying to

[00:46:34] splash down on so that becomes your tactical and if it's a a puff is going to be a knock sometimes

[00:46:42] especially in the lighter winds or that would really up and down you might say especially on a heavier

[00:46:48] boat this puffs going to be a knock we're going to go straight through it which means that the

[00:46:53] helms the gym trimmer has to be ready to ease the jib a little bit because it might actually start

[00:46:58] to bang but you can see that the next puff is only a boat length away and as opposed to dialing

[00:47:03] down 25 degrees to sail properly in the knock and then have to dial 25 degrees back up to what's

[00:47:11] coming then you want to just go through it and in you're from the Chesapeake Bay area right now

[00:47:18] so in that area that's super critical because they're just especially we stood up in Baltimore

[00:47:22] in the bay there's there's puffs to come down you know the river and through town hall

[00:47:27] ego alley and out from the sion and yeah that's a conversation that's one of the really good

[00:47:34] training grounds for that in particular what about other secrets of helming what do you know

[00:47:41] that other stuff already said don't don't turn too much um yeah you're not the you're not the

[00:47:47] person in charge you're the orchestrator it has to be a conversation uh when you're

[00:47:53] staring the boat I always tell people people you're nudging the boat you're nudging the boat up

[00:47:58] and nudging the boat down you're not just because you have the opportunity to turn and wipe

[00:48:04] somebody off the bow with you know a very quick turn that's not that's not your job unless

[00:48:08] first you're avoiding something i like that but nudging yeah i'm taking that with me to the

[00:48:13] yeah so like even on oc86 but i'm in the right mode well numbers the the jv66 we have

[00:48:19] is also really important to steer up when but even on the mass of oc86 which was sponsored by

[00:48:26] red pick and the kinskis from an apple sale that for the last permute on that boat when i'm in

[00:48:32] what i've got it all dialed in it is still just fingertips so don you tackle some of the most

[00:48:38] difficult things in sailing that you can imagine including running the america's cup team race

[00:48:42] to the america's cup racing sub-motion multiple times what drove you to do that i had little to no idea

[00:48:51] yeah i do know that when people tell me i cannot my gut instinct is screw you and watch me

[00:49:02] and people have asked me like when did i know evidently my grandfather told my mother when i was

[00:49:10] five that girl scares me she can see into the future i just grew up determined and i really don't

[00:49:17] know why because you as you get older you think back further and i just i just know i like to be

[00:49:24] competitive and i'd like to be successful and i'd like to have other people around me be successful

[00:49:30] and that back to doing every little thing as best as you possibly can is not because i'm a perfectionist

[00:49:38] it's because i understand that if you break it down into all the little tiny steps about you know

[00:49:43] clean up make your bed in the morning do the dishes before you go to sleep because in the morning

[00:49:49] then making your coffee you're not going to have to wash the dishes before you make the coffee

[00:49:52] that just saved three and a half minutes and it's just it's it's just that way to live so that

[00:50:00] life becomes easier and we say here if you don't worry about winning but you do everything you

[00:50:06] possibly can within your perfume as best as you possibly can then the winning is easy

[00:50:14] control me yeah oh it's easy it's like oh we won it's almost anti-climatic you're like

[00:50:26] there must be many moments when you have been tested to the limits probably on shore as well as

[00:50:33] certainly off shore i mean i know the story of hypothermia that you had in the sub-nation

[00:50:39] but it's really one that stands out as being a life-changing event for you when you

[00:50:44] when you were to test the limits and it changed things for you i don't think there's any one event

[00:50:50] when you mentioned on shore it's kind of funny because i mentioned earlier i am single

[00:50:56] and i never really wanted kids i never had time to have kids and yet hear it oak lift i'll have

[00:51:01] 45 to 50 on site at anyone's time they drive me freaking crazy and i've mentioned if i ever

[00:51:08] mentioned to my mother she just starts laughing she's like you didn't want to give me grandchildren

[00:51:12] look what happened so i think those are the times when i've tested the most when it's just like

[00:51:18] come on i know your brains aren't fully developed but please there's five of you

[00:51:23] somebody should have realized this was a stupid idea what i love about that don't is you have

[00:51:28] had hypothermia and being tossed over board in the sub-nation and yet your

[00:51:34] most stressful event is dealing with 40 kids other people's children's

[00:51:39] that is brilliant um i saw another quote of yours um you said that you

[00:51:45] i don't think this was true enough but you said you had a choice roughly between

[00:51:49] you know you could be sailing super yachts in santa pae or oak lift and you chose oak lift

[00:51:56] i still try to do the super yachts when i can um i'm going and speaking in health sinky and uh

[00:52:04] wouldn't vote conference this winter instead of going to state parts for the bucket which is

[00:52:09] killing me but um i think because super yachts are great and wonderful and pay well and it's you know

[00:52:18] it's something i've earned and i do well and because of all the things that we do it open if i

[00:52:23] use the owners and the gas to part of the crew so it's everybody on the boat contributing and

[00:52:29] winning the super yacht regatta is a big part of uh but here it's um it's i'm

[00:52:39] and being able to be tested and pushed every day and i've seen people grow and learn

[00:52:45] uh every day i think there's probably a little tiny bit that i do enjoy about sitting around

[00:52:53] and sharing knowledge with the younger people and it's on any given day so imagine like your

[00:53:02] like grandfather's sitting in your armchair you've got all these stories and nobody to tell them to

[00:53:06] i'm not that i have kids to tell the stories to you all the time and it's as simple as i was speaking

[00:53:12] on a cruise ship uh last week in san francisco and i it was a non-sailing group and so i was talking about

[00:53:18] and oak that re-educating the younger people it's simple things like postcards they have never seen

[00:53:26] postcards and i had one of my development people that was writing the postcards which he had helped

[00:53:32] create and he's putting them in envelope and he put a sticker and i said okay so he's sending

[00:53:36] the stickers that's why it's a Viamelo couple days later i see him putting an envelope in

[00:53:41] or a postcard in the envelope i'm like you know you can just put the address and put a statement on it

[00:53:45] and he looked at me incredulous and he looks and he goes do you mean make it?

[00:53:52] i was like yes people are going to read what you said on the postcard.

[00:53:56] so funny you never think about that you never think about it so i get i get to yeah it's bizarre

[00:54:02] and fun yeah i found as i got further towards the end of a corporate career the most pleasure you

[00:54:07] get is from seeing other people develop yes whether it's through coaching or through just what they're

[00:54:12] doing so fast but that's what i took the greatest pleasure from actually exactly and it's

[00:54:19] hilarious it entertains me to no end yeah o'cliffe it looks like absolutely an amazing facility here

[00:54:27] it's doing good where are you taking it? you're obviously an ambitious forward looking person

[00:54:33] obviously this is not the final thank you well so we oak was started 10 years ago

[00:54:41] i was i did the swatting analysis i was a consultant in 2009 and they guilted me into running it

[00:54:48] in 2010 when we started January 1st and i was going to stay for three years and run for office

[00:54:53] back in michigan or do another america's cup 14 years later this is a whole other

[00:54:59] area so let me drop this but 14 years later we're still here and as a constant struggle between

[00:55:08] we're doing too much but we can do more we're doing too much but we can do more so the current

[00:55:13] mission right now is to continue to do everything that we're doing as best as we possibly can

[00:55:19] and to continue to educate the public and the donors and the funders that this is a service that

[00:55:25] we are doing for our whole sport and not to be too grandiose for our country we are truly building

[00:55:34] american leaders that are representing our country and they're going to do amazing things if

[00:55:40] they haven't already you know mark and Charlie just won the ocean race after doing three laps

[00:55:44] those are graduates sono heller and plus a handful of people are running are working with american

[00:55:50] magic robin lash was working with american magic and we just got sent an article from New Zealand

[00:55:55] she's running alongside their best culture endurance runner in New Zealand so it's crazy how

[00:56:02] much our graduates are doing and we have to change the narrative between isn't that amazing with

[00:56:09] dawn and hunter doing in oyster bay run along to i need to support this so we are in an absolute

[00:56:17] fundraising campaign because i'm going to turn 60 so we need to start building up sustaining

[00:56:25] circle don't tell anybody else take your time like 102 but we need to have a sustaining circle fun

[00:56:31] we need to start bringing our graduates back in so that they the next generation of management

[00:56:36] is trained and ready to run this for a long time we we definitely need to do a capital campaign

[00:56:43] to purchase the building so there's some big ticket things there that are not super sexy but

[00:56:49] are extremely important we are doing everything we possibly can which is not our mission and our

[00:56:56] purview it's us sailing mission but they have not been doing a good job on the Olympics so we're

[00:57:01] trying to fill that void the board meeting yesterday they're like but that's not your job i said

[00:57:06] but we can and we must because we can we must the offshore programs doing quite well we're going

[00:57:12] to send a bunch of votes for me to the matricing we're part of the world matricing tour that is our

[00:57:17] bread and butter like if you just set hold the cord there's nothing left to do you have to pick one

[00:57:23] matricing is the most self-sustaining the most uh easy to continue running and it was what we

[00:57:28] started with really that was our primary and it's a good media event isn't it? it can be media it's not

[00:57:34] that hard or near future airport so it's a quick in and out there's social at the end there's

[00:57:40] pre-breast and debrief so it's clientensity learning so that is the one that anybody in an

[00:57:45] apolis already has that a paramount that anybody anywhere can run a matrician program and do a really

[00:57:50] good job of it where we have the complete uniqueness is the apprenticeship program yes there's

[00:57:56] iris yes there's some boat building schools that work like rocking the boat uh they have different

[00:58:01] missions but no place at all in the world can you come in and do the sailing side the fixing the

[00:58:09] boats side the project management the budgeting the promotion the fundraising so the whole campaign

[00:58:15] so we're training CEOs of nonprofits and corporations so that's where we you know it's a worthy

[00:58:22] cause that is word people giving their tax of multiple dollars to so then in our spare time what do

[00:58:30] we do next the thing that we keep getting asked over and over and over is can you make an

[00:58:36] oakland west and oakland west and oakland west yeah we don't have a huge desire to

[00:58:43] do that and run we are coaching people in the south and in the west there's not a revenue

[00:58:52] stream that comes back to oakland but there's opportunities that we would be extremely frustrated if

[00:59:03] they were withered away there's too often well-meaning people that don't have the experience that

[00:59:10] jump at an opportunity and talk to somebody else who doesn't have enough critical thinking in the

[00:59:15] business and experience and great nonprofits start flourished and died so we're working with a

[00:59:23] couple of other places to do that but I don't you know if we could just have a hundred percent full

[00:59:31] enrollment then I think we're doing really good and we have the funding to support that and

[00:59:38] that increases then we're doing really well and there's no need to expand our graduates can go

[00:59:45] into those expansions yeah I love that thought you said at the beginning there about um creative

[00:59:51] american leaders um I think that's so interesting rather than just creating a new generation of

[00:59:58] sales it's more than that yeah and that was part of it is that trying to do a speech or talk to a

[01:00:03] donor and say everything we did yeah and we had I think it was a poor member oh marketing we're

[01:00:11] gonna do this huge project and actually I had a friend of mine whose son was in the program

[01:00:18] who was the person who was a sponsor of my 19 uh or 2000 america's cup team who is a brilliant

[01:00:25] marketer Denise vano stuyers and she came up pro bono and did what my father who was a young

[01:00:31] group of him used to do with the branding exercise and a focus group and that is where we ended up

[01:00:37] with this we do this but we do this but we do this remember the word but no we do and and and and

[01:00:44] and then we started talking about what it is that we're really doing and what we're really doing

[01:00:51] every part of the program is that as best as you possibly can at every possible moment which

[01:00:56] is leadership so we're building american leaders through sale so we're using sailing as the

[01:01:02] the carrot and the sexiness and the tool and the fun to do the real work which is building leaders for

[01:01:07] america yeah it's so interesting because uh you know my limited experience of um you know managing

[01:01:14] about managing your sailing team there are so much crossover from corporate life and you see the

[01:01:20] skills of individual responsibility mutual trust communication leadership vision um understanding

[01:01:29] the dynamics that are happening and anticipating those that's all high performing team stuff in

[01:01:34] the corporate world it's fantastic training for the world and as you say a lot more fun

[01:01:41] yeah a lot more fun so we do do corporate team building here

[01:01:43] yeah that's awesome i don't like calling motivational informational

[01:01:49] information inspirational speaking um i am looking personally to sit on four-profit boards

[01:01:56] and whenever i have income whether it's team building speaking whatever that all goes back into open

[01:02:02] so that's a revenue stream because i believe again when you talk about leadership and ethics and

[01:02:06] doing things that are truly american not flag waving american but sincerely truly american if

[01:02:12] you're working for a nonprofit and you're having to decide between working to ten o'clock at night

[01:02:18] to finish something from the nonprofit or applying to Las Vegas and doing the speech

[01:02:23] it's easy to make that decision when all benefit is going to the nonprofit yeah so i shouldn't be

[01:02:29] benefiting even though they're talking about me and open up his built-in my experience in my reputation

[01:02:35] it's it's open is more important than any one person yeah i mean i'm i mean you're a force of

[01:02:42] nature behind it but it feels like a sustaining yes that's from the very beginning that was the

[01:02:49] biggest challenge because we had a main benefactor who it before this wasn't a nonprofit it was just

[01:02:55] somebody helping sailors and so from the very beginning every board meeting every year end and

[01:03:01] every audit because we're a public nonprofits were audited every year think this year we're back to

[01:03:08] completely common free audits which is awesome and the thing the question always is what do we do

[01:03:17] disaster recovery what do we do if we lose a main chunk of funding what do we do so we're

[01:03:22] always looking to be sustainable therefore the sustaining circle so we're looking for people that are

[01:03:27] willing to contribute and pledge a hundred thousand dollars for five years and then that will build

[01:03:33] the the coffers for a rainy day then we can start doing an investment fund and then

[01:03:41] we will continue to save every single dollar that we possibly can just to give you an idea

[01:03:46] our budget with a hundred votes not as many people but doing a crack load is a fraction of what

[01:03:54] the national governing bodies budget is not surprised somewhere about 92 95 percent of every dollar

[01:04:03] goes towards programming and you launch a capital fund campaign we're just hopefully I have a major

[01:04:12] gifts officer shortly and then we will work on that and again Billie Jean King turned 80 and

[01:04:22] I was part of the fundraising for that for the women's force foundations on like I'm 60

[01:04:27] fundraising about me I don't care about my birthday but I care about it yeah this has been amazing

[01:04:34] I sort of guessed it would be amazing and it absolutely is amazing and I know we've

[01:04:40] we've probably covered thousands of percent of what we could cover but thank you so much for

[01:04:47] your time it's the fantastic establishment here so if anybody hasn't been to work live

[01:04:51] hasn't heard about oakcloth or hasn't read about oakcloth if you really should

[01:04:55] and I'll put all that information in the bio and stuff so we've had cruising groups come up here too

[01:05:00] and we'll do like oyster shocking and they can go into oyster bay so yeah and so you haven't

[01:05:06] seen the waterfront here but there's a moron field we have a high performance speech

[01:05:12] there's waterfront quaint rustic very basic waterfront

[01:05:19] establishments and then oyster bay town is historic teni Roosevelt's right here so the oyster bay

[01:05:25] area so for people if they're just because they're like why not racing I don't care about that but

[01:05:29] they're just traveling up through long-end sound call us for NVGF 690 do you do custom coaching as well

[01:05:36] yes we can do custom coaching yeah it's more economical for people to come and join in a quarter

[01:05:42] of a sampling program which is 15 and above and by above doesn't matter how old you are

[01:05:47] so it's more economical for you to come here and practice speak because we have everything set up

[01:05:51] and you get numbers but yes we can do custom coaching and I can send my graduates down to do that as well

[01:05:56] no interesting really I didn't know that really interesting thank you very much for your time

[01:06:00] it's wonderful to meet you thank you

[01:06:10] well I told you it was going to be a good episode I think I'm right thanks so much to Dawn

[01:06:15] and the Oak Cliff Sailing Centre posting me thanks to you for listening as always and now see you on the water